Thread Drift: Scarlet Witch's Sins and Redemption(?)

[Mark]

I didn't think she was boring before Bendis did the hatchet job.

Movies as opposed to comics, comic fans will have one view of her, movie fans another, marvel as a whole will not care so long as the money keeps coming in.

[Fokken]

This rivalry between the movie goers and the book readers is soooooo ridiculous.

[gurkle]

I think a bit of the Bendis characterization will always be part of her. Between Byrne, Bendis and X-Men Evolution there are enough portrayals of her as mentally unstable that it will likely find its way into other media. Especially since the best-known stories are usually the recent ones and she hasn't done much recently.

There's a difference between "potentially unstable" and "so crazy and evil that she can't be used any more," though. MCU characters are usually softened from the recent stories - there's no way, for example, Tony Stark will be as bad in the Civil War movie as he was in the comics. And that's probably true of Wanda as well.

[Iron Maiden]

I didn't think she was boring before Bendis did the hatchet job.

Movies as opposed to comics, comic fans will have one view of her, movie fans another, marvel as a whole will not care so long as the money keeps coming in.

Thank goodness for that. Because I'm sure we want Doom's origin changing into his being an antisocial computer programmer in the comics too *sarcasm*


I didn't think Wanda was boring either. The things that made her interesting were taken away though. Byrne also put the final nail in the Vision/Wanda relationship. To tell the truth, I didn't like the marriage. I think it should have remained one of those "doomed romances". IMO they would have still loved each other but realized they could never have been lovers.

[Mark]

Thank goodness for that. Because I'm sure we want Doom's origin changing into his being an antisocial computer programmer in the comics too *sarcasm*


I didn't think Wanda was boring either. The things that made her interesting were taken away though. Byrne also put the final nail in the Vision/Wanda relationship. To tell the truth, I didn't like the marriage. I think it should have remained one of those "doomed romances". IMO they would have still loved each other but realized they could never have been lovers.

I liked the marriage, it was stable and pretty good before Byrne got his hands on it. I don't think what he did is as bad as what Bendis did. I think her and Cap would have been a better pairing from the start but I can understand why Stan didn't go that way.

What the truth is though is that to use this is a character we like, to the people at marvel she's part of a revenue machine and they'll do anything to the character to keep that money coming in. Bendis never respected the character and neither does Remender in my opinion: she's just a paycheck to them. To the people who produce the movies she's even less than that.

[Iron Maiden]

I liked the marriage, it was stable and pretty good before Byrne got his hands on it. I don't think what he did is as bad as what Bendis did. I think her and Cap would have been a better pairing from the start but I can understand why Stan didn't go that way.

And Stan was pointing in that direction in his Avengers but I forgot at which point Roy Thomas took over the title. There was this beginnings of a triangle with Stan because Wanda would stick up for Cap when Hawkeye was being belligerent and combative, mostly because he was jealous.

I really didn't read too much of the era when they were married but remembered thumbing through some comics and thinking I reallyd don't want to see the Vision in a domestic setting and wearing a pullover sweater.

What the truth is though is that to use this is a character we like, to the people at marvel she's part of a revenue machine and they'll do anything to the character to keep that money coming in. Bendis never respected the character and neither does Remender in my opinion: she's just a paycheck to them. To the people who produce the movies she's even less than that.

Yes, I think that with Wanda and with those two writers that is probably the case. Bendis showed little interest in revisiting Wanda's arc except for that bizarre encounter with Clint which IMO was pretty creepy of him. That no writer seemed to have any interest in taking the character over was strange IMO. Was Heinberg the only one who pitched her return?? Because it seems like as long as Bendis was going to stay the Avenger writer, we would never see her return to the title. And that was a pretty long time.

[just another user]

What the truth is though is that to use this is a character we like, to the people at marvel she's part of a revenue machine and they'll do anything to the character to keep that money coming in. Bendis never respected the character and neither does Remender in my opinion: she's just a paycheck to them. To the people who produce the movies she's even less than that.

2 questions, how can you state that Bendis "never respected the character"? If he's given an interview where he states that I'll concede the point, but I don't think it's correct to assume we know what writers think of the characters they are using.

2nd question, is it necessary for a writer to respect a fictional character?

Also Bendis did wonders for Wanda, he made her central to a story that has been playing out for the past 10 years and still continues to this day. That could count as respect.

[XPac]

And Stan was pointing in that direction in his Avengers but I forgot at which point Roy Thomas took over the title. There was this beginnings of a triangle with Stan because Wanda would stick up for Cap when Hawkeye was being belligerent and combative, mostly because he was jealous.

I really didn't read too much of the era when they were married but remembered thumbing through some comics and thinking I reallyd don't want to see the Vision in a domestic setting and wearing a pullover sweater.



Yes, I think that with Wanda and with those two writers that is probably the case. Bendis showed little interest in revisiting Wanda's arc except for that bizarre encounter with Clint which IMO was pretty creepy of him. That no writer seemed to have any interest in taking the character over was strange IMO. Was Heinberg the only one who pitched her return?? Because it seems like as long as Bendis was going to stay the Avenger writer, we would never see her return to the title. And that was a pretty long time.

I think the reason it took so long for Wanda to return was they were actually waiting for Heinberg to return... he sort of had dibs and it took forever to return to Young Avengers.

[just another user]

I think the reason it took so long for Wanda to return was they were actually waiting for Heinberg to return... he sort of had dibs and it took forever to return to Young Avengers.

And the artist they had for Children's Crusade caused delays as well iirc

[Mark]

2 questions, how can you state that Bendis "never respected the character"? If he's given an interview where he states that I'll concede the point, but I don't think it's correct to assume we know what writers think of the characters they are using.

2nd question, is it necessary for a writer to respect a fictional character?

Also Bendis did wonders for Wanda, he made her central to a story that has been playing out for the past 10 years and still continues to this day. That could count as respect.

That's my personal opinion and yes I do think it is necessary for a writer to respect a character, what that character has done before and how she has behaved. That is especially true to serially written characters. And his having Wanda go crazy and become the cause of the Avenger break up and then the de-powering and pain of so many mutants wasn't a wonder for the character, it's set her up as a hated figure in many X-fan's eyes and considering how bad Children's Crusade was written a broken one in many fans eyes. Bendis broke her, tossed her into the trash and never looked back and marvel never really cared until recently to try and bring her back.

[dragonmp93]

So since this is kind of a spinoff thread, I wanted to give a quick thought on why this argument will always go in circles:

Some fans enjoy treating the world of comics, as much as possible, as if it's real. They know it's not real, of course, but they enjoy treating it like it is: Mutants are like a real minority, mutant suffering is real suffering, every mutant death counts as much as a real death. Saying that characters are out-of-character or badly written is beside the point: what they do is canon, it counts. So everything that happens because of "No More Mutants" in every X-Book is on Wanda, and the bad writing doesn't change that she's as guilty as a real person would be.

Other fans here are fans of particular characters, in this case Wanda. We want her to be a certain way and not go outside the boundaries of what we consider in character for her, and above all, we want her to be in the comics, not out of them like she was for so many years. Basically, whatever overturns HoM and makes her a usable character again, we will take, and if it doesn't make so much sense, we can just point out that the original story didn't make sense either.

These two camps will never agree because we're looking at the stories from completely different perspectives. One side doesn't like that Wanda, the arch-villain of so many years of X-stories, is suddenly and clumsily turned back into an Avenger. The other side doesn't really care about who is punished or rewarded for these stories, we just want the character back. And that's why the argument will always go in circles.



He's probably right, or at least, put it this way: fans usually don't stop buying a comic when it makes them angry. They stop buying when the comic makes them bored. It would be nice if they could find more ways of entertaining us without making us angry. But it is true that if we're angry we're probably going to keep reading.

Yeah, this is pretty much the core of this discussion.

[Mark]

I don't think many writers have delved into Wanda's Romani origin and I'm sure that it wasn't high on Bendis list when he wrote her. She was just the prop he needed to destroy the Avengers and write his own new Avengers, I don't think any of the Children's Crusade writers cared much either. Given how bad that was written and how much it was delayed I doubt that marvel was doing much with it but painting over the cracks to get the character back in circulation again, any sloppy job would have satisfied them.

[GenericUsername]

I don't think many writers have delved into Wanda's Romani origin and I'm sure that it wasn't high on Bendis list when he wrote her. She was just the prop he needed to destroy the Avengers and write his own new Avengers, I don't think any of the Children's Crusade writers cared much either. Given how bad that was written and how much it was delayed I doubt that marvel was doing much with it but painting over the cracks to get the character back in circulation again, any sloppy job would have satisfied them.

Writers have over the years. Busiek did some, before that it was when her origin was being retold or gone over again.

I don't think ever that Bendis did it because of her heritage. It just makes it bad that it was that type of character. There's only three Romani characters in the universe and one is a villain.

I agree, to Bendis she was the plot device in the editorial mandated storyline. Children's Crusade didn't do a good job of cleaning it up.

[Rochedalaix]

I'm so over M-Day I don't care about it, it was criminally negligent mass homicide at worst, and that is not even Scarlet Witch's biggest sin as far as I'm concerned. Scarlet Witch's biggest sin imo is even after knowing the danger the Life Force posed she summoned it again leading to Doom being possessed and killing Cassie Lang at that point ignorance can't be used as a excuse, and that is my problem with the Scarlet Witch she doesn't learn, and I hate people not only in fiction but in real life that don't learn and keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

I can forgive someone that gets drunk and kills someone driving once but if they do it again than they deserve whatever happens to them. Also saying blaming Scarlet Witch is victim blaming is disgusting Scarlet Witch is not a victim.

[Kisinith]

I don't really have an issue with Wanda, I would have preferred a better redemption story, if only because of how significant M-Day was but at the end of the day its still just a comic book. The part that makes me want to bang my head against the wall comes from her supporters (in-comic and on the forums) who are willing to sweep her actions away but at the same time call for Cyclops head. The double standards and hypocrisy are maddening.

I will also add that RR's writing has not done her any favors, whatever her culpability in M-Day her actions and comments in UA are massively distasteful.