Thread Drift: Scarlet Witch's Sins and Redemption(?)

[Star_Jammer]

The way I see it, Wanda was looking for power, and she found it.

Turns out, power corrupts.

Fitting, then, how Scott was so power hungry for the Phoenix's arrival.

[Emma's Midriff]

Fitting, then, how Scott was so power hungry for the Phoenix's arrival.

Deflecting Wanda's poor decisions onto Cyclops doesn't help her case as much as you think it does.

[dragonmp93]

Nope. Not when they all spring from the same poisoned tree of 2 stories where she barely even appears (Disassembled, House of M). This is why we'll always be arguing in circles. You think one act of bad writing overrides everything else a character is and was. Or at least you think so for this particular character; I'm not sure you feel the same way about your own favorites, but luckily, no character has ever been written quite this badly.

Well, Cyclops used to be a boy scout, Wolverine used to be someone that no one would trust for anything except killing.....................................

Fitting, then, how Scott was so power hungry for the Phoenix's arrival.

And people thinks that i make this of things up................................................ .

[Star_Jammer]

Deflecting Wanda's poor decisions onto Cyclops doesn't help her case as much as you think it does.

It's not deflection. They are separate decisions.

And it's not about helping Wanda. It's about reminding you she's not the only "guilty" one.

[gurkle]

The way I see it, Wanda was looking for power, and she found it.

Turns out, power corrupts.

That would be an interesting story if we saw it.

I've said it before, "Wanda becomes obsessed with reviving her lost children and winds up destroying herself and the Avengers" isn't an inherently bad story. But it was never written, Bendis just said it happened off-panel and told us to take his word that she'd been going crazy for years. But things that don't happen on-panel simply don't count as much as 40+ years of things that happen on-panel.

[Star_Jammer]

Well, Cyclops used to be a boy scout, Wolverine used to be someone that no one would trust for anything except killing.....................................



And people thinks that i make this of things up................................................ .

When did this change?

[Emma's Midriff]

That would be an interesting story if we saw it.

I've said it before, "Wanda becomes obsessed with reviving her lost children and winds up destroying herself and the Avengers" isn't an inherently bad story. But it was never written, Bendis just said it happened off-panel and told us to take his word that she'd been going crazy for years. But things that don't happen on-panel simply don't count as much as 40+ years of things that happen on-panel.

Did you not read Children's Crusade? That wasn't a Bendis-written book.

[gurkle]

Did you not read Children's Crusade? That wasn't a Bendis-written book.

We get exactly three flashback panels filling in (aka retconning) what happened in the lead-up to Avengers Disassembled. That's not a story. Whatever I may think about Darker Than Scarlet, it is a story that shows how Wanda goes mad and why. But she's not a character in Avengers Disassembled, it's not her story, and the few panels in Children's Crusade are just an attempt to clean up Bendis's mess a bit (whether you think they succeeded or not is a different matter).

I'm saying fans of the character wouldn't hate Disassembled/HoM as much if we saw her go bad and saw why she went bad. As it is, it was so unmotivated that there was no reason not to simply turn her good again.

[dragonmp93]

When did this change?

Well, given that he is the leader of the "sane" side of the X-men.

It's not deflection. They are separate decisions.

And it's not about helping Wanda. It's about reminding you she's not the only "guilty" one.

Something that i never understood is why Doctor Doom never used the power booster on himself ?.

[Quillero]

I don't remember Scott going to a villain to ask for the Phoenix for himself. And even if he did, it doesn't change one iota Wanda's responsibility in ruining millions of lives and murdering two innocent souls. I don't know how someone could think that "others do it too" is a valid reason to excuse a heinous criminal like the Witch.

[Star_Jammer]

Well, given that he is the leader of the "sane" side of the X-men.



Something that i never understood is why Doctor Doom never used the power booster on himself ?.

He did. In Children's Crusade.

You people say you read these things...I just wonder...

[Emma's Midriff]

We get exactly three flashback panels filling in (aka retconning) what happened in the lead-up to Avengers Disassembled. That's not a story. Whatever I may think about Darker Than Scarlet, it is a story that shows how Wanda goes mad and why. But she's not a character in Avengers Disassembled, it's not her story, and the few panels in Children's Crusade are just an attempt to clean up Bendis's mess a bit (whether you think they succeeded or not is a different matter).

I'm saying fans of the character wouldn't hate Disassembled/HoM as much if we saw her go bad and saw why she went bad. As it is, it was so unmotivated that there was no reason not to simply turn her good again.

Regardless of your personal opinion about the stories, they are the canon.

I thought CC was a shitty story too, but, alas, we're stuck with it.

[Star_Jammer]

I don't remember Scott going to a villain to ask for the Phoenix for himself. And even if he did, it doesn't change one iota Wanda's responsibility in ruining millions of lives and murdering two innocent souls. I don't know how someone could think that "others do it too" is a valid reason to excuse a heinous criminal like the Witch.

"Others do it too" isn't a very valid reason when discussing events with people who defend one but not the other, simply because they choose to...but it does point out the hypocrisy.

[gurkle]

I don't remember Scott going to a villain to ask for the Phoenix for himself. And even if he did, it doesn't change one iota Wanda's responsibility in ruining millions of lives and murdering two innocent souls. I don't know how someone could think that "others do it too" is a valid reason to excuse a heinous criminal like the Witch.

The excuse is "the writer didn't treat her fair." "Others do it too" is the in-universe reason why so few characters are mad at her any more, but out of universe it's mostly about "Bendis didn't treat her fair and his stupid story must be retconned."

These aren't real people and they don't have "responsibility" for their actions like real people do. Anything that turns a badly-written character back into a good guy, like possession, is acceptable as long as the end result is better stories. And no one can claim Wanda had better story material when she wasn't in the comics (well, some will claim that, but they're wrong). HoM made her unusable, if it's not her fault she's not usable, therefore it's not her fault. Not hard.

[gurkle]

Regardless of your personal opinion about the stories, they are the canon.

I thought CC was a shitty story too, but, alas, we're stuck with it.

Fine. But the idea that CC makes her an evil baby-crazy self-hating mutant mass-murderer is not, shall we say, universally held. How you interpret that clumsy retcon depends entirely on whether you enjoy hating the character or liking the character. If you want to like the character, it provides all the tools necessary, including the possibility (now pretty much a probability) that Doom planned the whole thing.