Minorities In Comics and Related Media

[skyvolt2000]

A sorta interesting article on race bending in comics from CA http://comicsalliance.com/diversity-...n-human-torch/

Somebody got it.

his aggressive insistence on ultimately cosmetic changes for political ends only works in entertainment when the market can bear it. If Batwing, Mister Terrific, Static Shock, and Voodoo couldn't find an audience it may be that D.C. did not try hard enough to sell the books. Yet, if audiences didn't respond then D.C. has no obligation to hurt themselves further with low performing books. It'd be great to see more characters of more diverse backgrounds-if they can succeed in being part of great stories that entertain and get audiences to buy them.

Batwing, Mister Terrific, Static Shock and Voodoo couldn't find an audience for the same reason that Captain Atom, Firestorm, Hawkman, DeathStroke, Talon and Blackhawks all got cancelled: THEY WEREN'T VERY GOOD and all were hampered by massive editorial misjudgements. Mister Terrific, Blue Beetle, Batman:Beyond and Static Shock, in particular, took established takes on the characters and trampled them. Creative teams were undermined and readers were alienated. It has far less to do with the ethnicity of the characters as it does the material just not being very good.

Now why can't the folks who hate diversity understand that?



Oh and in the victory for the minority writer-

http://shawnsjames.blogspot.com/2014...ver-by_28.html

I’m a big fan of Bill Walko’s The Hero Busine$$. It’s a hilarious strip about a public relations company that helps superheroes craft their public image. The strip reminds me so much of Dwayne McDuffie's early Marvel Classic Damage Control. I highly recommend you take a read from the beginning; I never miss a strip!

Unfortunately, money has always been an issue with me being out of work for so long. I thought I couldn’t afford his rates.

But I just decided to go for it. While I was working on my Kickstarter, I wrote up a business letter and contacted him. When he wrote me back he gave me a great rate I couldn’t pass up. Having a professional cover by an artist whose work I was a big fan of was part of what gave me the motivation to keep pushing and promoting the Kickstarter as hard as I did.

When the Kickstarter failed in May, I almost gave up. During the Spring recess, a family member came to me asking me to sell some books and dolls she was going to throw out. And my brother told me about the rate New in Box Darkseid Destroyers were going for on eBay. (My brother bought one WAY back in 1989 on clearance at Kiddie City and couldn’t sell it at a comicon, so it sat in my closet for over 25 years) Looking for that box buried at the bottom of my closet, I found a bunch of collectibles and other superhero memorabilia to go along with their stuff and went on a selling spree.

Over the last two months, I sold everything from those old dolls, that Darkseid Destroyer, action figures, Toy catalogs from the 1990’s and a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Pie wrapper. (I just kept it because I liked it; had no idea it was worth so much today) With the money I made from those sales I was able to raise the funds to pay for the cover.

Looking at this cover I love it! I love the way Bill drew everything; his art tells a great story.

Mind you this guy has been out of work for 6+ years and survives on his e-book sales. And in the white folks don't buy black books myth-90% of his readers are white. And he hates DC Comics with a pure passion.

[Kasper Cole]

why does it seem like lately people are falling back on the idea that the lack of diversity makes sense given Marvel and DC's core consumer base?

Isn't one of the huge problems the fact that said consumer base is shrinking and getting older? As i keep saying it's not just enough to put these character out there, they also need to market them to the new readers. Marvel has actually improved a slight on that front as of late. DC typically treats their minority lead books like dirty little secrets even within their fictional universe.

[JaggedFel]

Yeah but comics are just around to maintain copyright now.

Anyway watching Legend of Korra and this season seems better.

[Overhazard]

Yeah but comics are just around to maintain copyright now.

Anyway watching Legend of Korra and this season seems better.

I forgot to watch the premiere on friday, HBO and Cinemax are having a free weekend so I'm watching as many movies as possible. I finally saw pacific rim. I liked it. It showed the monsters and the jegers fighting more than godzilla and the mutos.

[BlaqRain]

I forgot to watch the premiere on friday, HBO and Cinemax are having a free weekend so I'm watching as many movies as possible. I finally saw pacific rim. I liked it. It showed the monsters and the jegers fighting more than godzilla and the mutos.

Pacific Rim is a great movie. Idris plays a blinder.

[Jeff Brady]

A person who is "getting a ride in a car" is different grom a person "driving a car". So unless the car is driving itself and the new GR is only a passenger, then him being called "Ghost Rider" does not make a lick of sense.

A person who is "getting a ride on a motorcycle" is different from a person "driving a motorcycle".

[ed2962]

why does it seem like lately people are falling back on the idea that the lack of diversity makes sense given Marvel and DC's core consumer base?

Isn't one of the huge problems the fact that said consumer base is shrinking and getting older? As i keep saying it's not just enough to put these character out there, they also need to market them to the new readers. Marvel has actually improved a slight on that front as of late. DC typically treats their minority lead books like dirty little secrets even within their fictional universe.

I think the success of MS Marvel caught a few people off guard, but I think it's cuz the book got mentioned in other media. It's a weird thing to say, but the Conan O Brien snafu might have even help the book's profile/visibility.

[ed2962]

double post

[Double 0]

You know, a lot has been said about Storm-bashing. And yes, it generally gets out of hand. But I really feel like there's a genuine misunderstanding on why Storm is a controversial character around here and other places.

So, without much bile, I just want to clear the air and have a moderate discussion about why Storm isn't as highly regarded in some parts. I'll start.





My problem specifically isn't with Storm the character. It also has nothing to do with Black Panther, or Wolverine, or Forge. The marriage may have further brought the issue to light for others, but even without it, the problem has always been there, and I'm hoping, begging Pak to fix this. My problem is with how she is written and what that has conceptualized.

If Luke Cage is the working class black hero, and Black Panther is a symbol of afrocentrism/black independence, then Storm, to me, is the black hero that symbolizes the pursuit for white validation.

She's the black college student that goes to a predominantly white college because they feel that HBCUs are inferior by concept. She's the immigrant that interacts primarily with white Americans, and through that, sees African-Americans as inferior. She's "beyond race", but specifically too good for people in her own race.

She's "the good one". She "isn't like the rest". She's black excellence through a white/eurocentric gaze, similar to "strong female characters" written from a male gaze.

With her generally comes very ugly and generalize perceptions of Africa. Throughout her history, her interactions with black characters have been sparse till I guess the marriage. Sparse afterwards as well. And by sparse, I mean either saving hapless victims, or beating them/scaring them. To be honest, this somewhat continued even during the marriage (ie: the Nightshade fight).

Despite what I am saying, I am not calling her an Uncle Tom; these are things I've seen many black people do, and I wouldn't call these people anything of the sort. That's saved for people deliberating doing things are making policies in support of white supremacy/institutionalized racism. I'm saying that, as written, Storm's history is one I can't look at without seeing question marks and blemishes. I would say someone could change that, but really, it's most of her history. It would practically take a revamp to fix some of these issues.

I said this before pre-CBR reboot, but this isn't a new opinion, and it isn't a rare one. I've heard plenty of black comic book fans say something similar. How they'd rather give their little girls a comic with Monica Rambeau, or Misty Knight, or a hero like Miranda Mercury to read for reasons similar to this.

And what really sucks is that I do see how she can be a fantastic feminist and LGBT icon, but she's just plain problematic. And she isn't the only Claremazon that is.

[Kasper Cole]

It's almost like in some cases they tried TOO hard with Storm to be progressive. When you look at the characters background it's actually baffling that she written the way she is at times regarding her racial and ethnic heritage. I even remember people on the old CBR saying Storm doesn't see herself as black and sees herself as a mutant first and foremost. i can't even begrudge people for seeing things that way because that's generally how she's written.

She's the "Just happens to be black" character that some fans are always saying they'd prefer over unapologetically black characters like Luke Cage, Black Panther, Misty Knight and Falcon.

[Kasper Cole]

This makes me think of something else...

Can anyone think of a Black Marvel character whose long time best friend is also black? Only person I can immediately think of is Black Panther and his friendship with Taku..

[Overhazard]

It's almost like in some cases they tried TOO hard with Storm to be progressive. When you look at the characters background it's actually baffling that she written the way she is at times regarding her racial and ethnic heritage. I even remember people on the old CBR saying Storm doesn't see herself as black and sees herself as a mutant first and foremost. i can't even begrudge people for seeing things that way because that's generally how she's written.

She's the "Just happens to be black" character that some fans are always saying they'd prefer over unapologetically black characters like Luke Cage, Black Panther, Misty Knight and Falcon.

Didn't claremont say something about storm being "a mixture of women from all races" so that she wouldn't be black?

It's not just storm, the X-men are like a cult, once you join, you lose the identity you had before, you're just a code name and a superpower. The popular characters get some development beyond that, but that's mostly what you are.

[Tracer Bullet]

Storm's circumstance isn't the same as Monica Rambeau or Misty Knight's, namely because a)she wasn't raised in American culture, so she's kind of an outsider when it comes to the many of the expectations associated with Black American identity.(I'm vaguely recalling a few panels where she was confused by American prudishness about going topless). And so isn't a disconnect kind of true to life. Djimon Honsou described his experience coming to the US from France saying: “It never occurred to me that there was a way to behave ’black’ in order to be black… That was one of my first encounters with, I guess, the American lifestyle. It was difficult for me. Growing up in France, I was just a human being. I came here and they tell you, ’Hey, he behaves like a white boy.’ I didn’t know there was a way to be black. So that was shocking,”
I mean can't you say she's more the person that recoils after having her identity policed than someone whose internalized shame about her Blackness.
b)she's a mutant and therefore a double minority, as there's a level of alienation from non mutant Black as well.

[ed2962]

Didn't claremont say something about storm being "a mixture of women from all races" so that she wouldn't be black?

It's not just storm, the X-men are like a cult, once you join, you lose the identity you had before, you're just a code name and a superpower. The popular characters get some development beyond that, but that's mostly what you are.

If we're thinking about the same thing, it was an issue when Storm had became a child again and people were trying to figure out why she looked so weird. It was more about acknowledging Dave Cockrum's out there character design on panel than deminishing her blackness. However, by not having her interact with black folks outside of the X-Men, the writers over the years inadvertently did just that. I don't think there's a inherent flaw with the character, but I get what Double O is saying.

[ed2962]

Storm's circumstance isn't the same as Monica Rambeau or Misty Knight's, namely because a)she wasn't raised in American culture, so she's kind of an outsider when it comes to the many of the expectations associated with Black American identity.(I'm vaguely recalling a few panels where she was confused by American prudishness about going topless). And so isn't a disconnect kind of true to life. Djimon Honsou described his experience coming to the US from France saying: “It never occurred to me that there was a way to behave ’black’ in order to be black… That was one of my first encounters with, I guess, the American lifestyle. It was difficult for me. Growing up in France, I was just a human being. I came here and they tell you, ’Hey, he behaves like a white boy.’ I didn’t know there was a way to be black. So that was shocking,”
I mean can't you say she's more the person that recoils after having her identity policed than someone whose internalized shame about her Blackness.
b)she's a mutant and therefore a double minority, as there's a level of alienation from non mutant Black as well.

Even without the mutant thing Storm would be a minority in different ways. She's black. She's a woman. She's sorta an immigrant.