Minorities In Comics and Related Media

[Agent Z]

Well, the Great War almost wiped out his entire race and destroyed his planet, but he still held onto his values and ideals. And that was Cybertronian killing Cybertronian.

When we first see Optimus he's had time to come to terms with that. In AoE, the human betrayal is more recent and thus the wounds are still fresh.

It's not just the brutality, but the fact that he seems to almost enjoy the killing part and can't stop talking about it.

I never see how he enjoyed it at all. Again, I think the "give me your face" line and similar stuff is stupid but these are things being said in the heat of battle not in casual conversation.

I can see the arc, and understand that humans are a bunch of A-holes, but it's still jarring seeing Optimus Prime's characterization go from the first movie to the 'Bot in the AoE who seems to have dropped any pretense of being noble and heroic.

Keep in mind, even in AoE Optimus is very restrained for someone in his situation. He only kills the Cemetery Wind guys when they're about to kill Cade and his daughter and kills Attinger to save Cade again. He is given the opportunity to kill Joyce twice and both times stays his hand despite Joyce being one of the people responsible for his plite and the one who has benefited from it the most.

[CliffHanger2]

While we're talking about Transformers, I have to ask, is Bay's Optimus Prime really that awful a person? I admit there a lot of problems with the films but Bay's Optimus doesn't seem like the biggest one to me.

Bay's Optimus is a Baaadddd MF. Luv im.

[MindofShadow]

Bay's Optimus is a Baaadddd MF. Luv im.

Yeah, i love the murder quotes

but then again, I think in every single movie he got his ass beat before being saved lol

1. Sam uses allspark to kill megatron before megatron kills optimus

2. dies and then brought back to life

3. sentinel is about to murk him until the girl gets megatron to flip on sentinel

4. errrrr... so long of a movie I only saw once.. .ummm.. but I think Walhberg saved the day and stoppe dthe bounty hunter dude form killing Optimus didn't he?

[Agent Z]

Yeah, i love the murder quotes

but then again, I think in every single movie he got his ass beat before being saved lol

1. Sam uses allspark to kill megatron before megatron kills optimus

2. dies and then brought back to life

3. sentinel is about to murk him until the girl gets megatron to flip on sentinel

4. errrrr... so long of a movie I only saw once.. .ummm.. but I think Walhberg saved the day and stoppe dthe bounty hunter dude form killing Optimus didn't he?

Actually Wahlberg's daughter and her boyfriend freed Optimus who then killed the hunter to save Wahlberg.

[MindofShadow]

Actually Wahlberg's daughter and her boyfriend freed Optimus who then killed the hunter to save Wahlberg.

I'll take your word for it.

THat was one looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong movie that needed 40 minutes cut out of it.

[Surf]

While we're talking about Transformers, I have to ask, is Bay's Optimus Prime really that awful a person? I admit there a lot of problems with the films but Bay's Optimus doesn't seem like the biggest one to me.

Kinda sorta yes and no. Bay's Prime is probably...definitely, is the most G1 faithful part of the entire Bay narrative, that said a lot of that credit is due to Pete Cullen. I can't speak to Bay's Age of Extinction as... that ******* won't get another dime outta me but from the first three movies his Prime has gotten quite a bit more savage over the course. Dude's been through a lot of robot war so in of itself not awful but if it is uncharacteristic, again Bay's ineffectual screenplay's wasn't concerned with any helpful exposition over it. No time for story about robots, gotta get LaBuuf's and product placements groove on.

To me, the only transformers movie that's relatively watchable is the third one. The other three, blahh. IDW does a good job with the comics though. MTMTE is amazing.

I haven't seen Beast Wars in forever but admittedly, after balking over the nerve of it's very presence for longer than I should have, once I got into it I found it pretty damned enjoyable. I dug the serialized, Wizard of Oz type tone of it, that was pretty coo. It had what the live action versions have had little of- some actual fucking CHARM! I don't doubt visually it hasn't aged well though.

I give the first Bayformers a slight pass, it had it's brief moments. The arrival of the Autobots scene still does give me goosebumps and I didn't completely hate Starscreams look. Other than that, all I can do is put my palm over my mouth and make a long audible fart noise over my feelings for the rest of it.

[CliffHanger2]

Yeah, i love the murder quotes

but then again, I think in every single movie he got his ass beat before being saved lol

1. Sam uses allspark to kill megatron before megatron kills optimus

2. dies and then brought back to life

3. sentinel is about to murk him until the girl gets megatron to flip on sentinel

4. errrrr... so long of a movie I only saw once.. .ummm.. but I think Walhberg saved the day and stoppe dthe bounty hunter dude form killing Optimus didn't he?

He did get saved a bunch of times but anybody who can tame GrimLock gotta be baaaad...lol

[MindofShadow]

To me, the only transformers movie that's relatively watchable is the third one. The other three, blahh. IDW does a good job with the comics though. MTMTE is amazing.

I actually enjoy watching the Third one.

I hate the first one with a passion. So GD boring.

Second one isn't even coherent and is 30 minutes too long. I do like the woods scene and watching Optimus rip the Fallen in half though on youtube lol

4th was god awful. wway too long, not nearly enough Dinobots.

[Frontier]

Kinda sorta yes and no. Bay's Prime is probably...definitely, is the most G1 faithful part of the entire Bay narrative, that said a lot of that credit is due to Pete Cullen. I can't speak to Bay's Age of Extinction as... that ******* won't get another dime outta me but from the first three movies his Prime has gotten quite a bit more savage over the course. Dude's been through a lot of robot war so in of itself not awful but if it is uncharacteristic, again Bay's ineffectual screenplay's wasn't concerned with any helpful exposition over it. No time for story about robots, gotta get LaBuuf's and product placements groove on.

I'd agree with this. The first movie probably had Prime closest to his traditional characterization compared to how he was portrayed over the course of the other movies

One thing I'll give credit to the movies for is that they actually let Prime have more of an emotional range, and give Cullen more to work with, then most of the modern cartoons do where he's pretty much just the stoic leader all the time. Which is the opposite of G1.

[Agent Z]

I liked the first and fourth movies the best. The fourth movies gave the most development to the Autobots.

Also, as much as I hate Jazz's death in the first Bay movie, I feel like Cliffjumper's death in the first episode of Prime was far worse. You'd think an Autobot voiced by Dwayne Johnson would do more than get killed by freaking Starscream.

[Overhazard]

I liked the first and fourth movies the best. The fourth movies gave the most development to the Autobots.

Also, as much as I hate Jazz's death in the first Bay movie, I feel like Cliffjumper's death in the first episode of Prime was far worse. You'd think an Autobot voiced by Dwayne Johnson would do more than get killed by freaking Starscream.

Prime's Starscream was the most competent version I've ever seen, especially once he started being completely loyal to Megatron.

I actually enjoy watching the Third one.

I hate the first one with a passion. So GD boring.

Second one isn't even coherent and is 30 minutes too long. I do like the woods scene and watching Optimus rip the Fallen in half though on youtube lol

4th was god awful. wway too long, not nearly enough Dinobots.

The first one put too much emphasis on the humans, and my favorite scene from the fourth is when optimus punches grimlock while saying "We're giving you, FREEDOM!"

Kinda sorta yes and no. Bay's Prime is probably...definitely, is the most G1 faithful part of the entire Bay narrative, that said a lot of that credit is due to Pete Cullen. I can't speak to Bay's Age of Extinction as... that ******* won't get another dime outta me but from the first three movies his Prime has gotten quite a bit more savage over the course. Dude's been through a lot of robot war so in of itself not awful but if it is uncharacteristic, again Bay's ineffectual screenplay's wasn't concerned with any helpful exposition over it. No time for story about robots, gotta get LaBuuf's and product placements groove on.



I haven't seen Beast Wars in forever but admittedly, after balking over the nerve of it's very presence for longer than I should have, once I got into it I found it pretty damned enjoyable. I dug the serialized, Wizard of Oz type tone of it, that was pretty coo. It had what the live action versions have had little of- some actual fucking CHARM! I don't doubt visually it hasn't aged well though.

I give the first Bayformers a slight pass, it had it's brief moments. The arrival of the Autobots scene still does give me goosebumps and I didn't completely hate Starscreams look. Other than that, all I can do is put my palm over my mouth and make a long audible fart noise over my feelings for the rest of it.

Does anyone else find the Bayformer designs a little too busy? I guess they'd be what a robot that turned into a car would look like, but other than Optimus and Bumblebee I have a hard time telling them apart. To me the 'Cons look like robot spiders.

[Frontier]

I liked the first and fourth movies the best. The fourth movies gave the most development to the Autobots.

The fourth movie actually gave each of the Autobots characterization and plenty of cool moments. The focus felt a lot more balanced between the human and Autobot casts compared to the other movies, especially 2 and 3.

Also, as much as I hate Jazz's death in the first Bay movie, I feel like Cliffjumper's death in the first episode of Prime was far worse. You'd think an Autobot voiced by Dwayne Johnson would do more than get killed by freaking Starscream.

Well, Cliffjumper's death was deliberately meant to be shocking because of how much they had been promoting Dwayne Johnson playing him, only for him to die in the first few minutes of the first episode to demonstrate that the were creators were willing to kill characters off.

Starscream can be pretty deadly when he wants to be, at least in certain continuities. Not that he really was that deadly in Prime, especially when he would never shut up about his killing Cliffjumper (the only major achievement he ever really had on the show and even that's dubious at best), but he made up for it in craftiness.

[Agent Z]

Prime's Starscream was the most competent version I've ever seen, especially once he started being completely loyal to Megatron.



The first one put too much emphasis on the humans, and my favorite scene from the fourth is when optimus punches grimlock while saying "We're giving you, FREEDOM!"



Does anyone else find the Bayformer designs a little too busy? I guess they'd be what a robot that turned into a car would look like, but other than Optimus and Bumblebee I have a hard time telling them apart. To me the 'Cons look like robot spiders.

I'd say Unicron Trilogy Starscream was the most competent version. Prime Starcream starts out okay but gets hit with villain decay real quick.

The fourth film does streamline the designs somewhat.

[MindofShadow]

The first one put too much emphasis on the humans, and my favorite scene from the fourth is when optimus punches grimlock while saying "We're giving you, FREEDOM!"

LOL now I remember that part!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Bb6E4GxDY

(that clip is everything so wrong and so right with the bayformers in 4 minutes lol)


sounds like something MURICA! woudl say lol

[Frontier]

I'd say Unicron Trilogy Starscream was the most competent version. Prime Starcream starts out okay but gets hit with villain decay real quick.

The fourth film does streamline the designs somewhat.

Animated Starscream was also pretty effective, even when he became reliant on the Allspark shard in his head.

LOL now I remember that part!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Bb6E4GxDY

(that clip is everything so wrong and so right with the bayformers in 4 minutes lol)


sounds like something MURICA! woudl say lol

Even I can't deny the awesomeness of Optimus Prime saying "Roll Out" atop a giant, robot, dinosaur .