Minorities In Comics and Related Media

[Carabas]

Can't really argue there. For one such as Jessica you'd need Luke's unbreakable skin, Wolverine's skeleton, and Cap's personality.

More like Wolverine's liver.

[leo619]

In tumblr's defence on the Finn Poe thing the movie queer baited the hell out of them.

Eh, not really. The main force awaken scene that was brought up to illustrate chemistry was relatively subtle, especially in comparison to Finn's reactions and
dedication to Rey.

What queer baited the hell out of them was after the movie, and people was wanting to see Finn and Poe together, the actors who played Finn and Poe definitely baited them interviews. That's where they really got baited. It was the build up after the initial rise of popularity for the pairing that rose it to new heights. But that really only sparked after the initial high response of wanting to see them together.

[leo619]

Can't really argue there. For one such as Jessica you'd need Luke's unbreakable skin, Wolverine's skeleton, and Cap's personality.



Let's put this Kylo Ren thing into perspective, not only was he a mass murderer he was prepared to wipe out the last vestiges of his family.

Looking back perhaps the showrunners never intended for Jessica and Luke to be a thing like in the comics. You'd think more people would be sour about this like they are about Natasha and Bucky not being a thing or Clint and Bobbi but it is what it is.

Now let's flip the script for the fun of it. Back when Candice Patton was cast as Iris West I recall a bit of blowback as one would expect with a race bend. Anyway fast forward in time a bit and everyone seems to have mellowed out and you don't hear a peep, hell DCEU Iris is going to be black most likely due to this casting. Currently Iris is married to Barry but before getting married she only dated or expressed interest in white men. Now there was a brief moment when she considered going out on a date with her boss, a black dude, but by the end of the episode she was more than positive that she wanted to be with Barry.

In a somewhat similar case we have Peter Parker and Liz Allan/Toomes from Homecoming. Again there was the initial negative response to the casting then everything was gravy more or less. Now what really separates this from BarryxIris is that Peter and Liz never actually got together and she moved at the end of the movie but wait we have Michelle waiting in the wings.



In regards to Tumblr it can be a mix of column A and column B at times.

Exactly, that's what throws me for a loop. This dude killed his pops, who literally was trying to save him. Hell, if Han was going at him gun blazing, they would have a slightly bigger leg to stand on, but Kylo isn't Zuko from Avatar. They're pretty much pairing Rey with a sci fi hitler.

Oh and let's not get started on the arrowverse. The madness I saw over Wally West and Jessie Quick made me hurl. And of course, the show splits them up in a quick minute.

And agreed regarding it being a mix, Yaoi and Yuri can be a dangerous thing sometimes lol.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

More like Wolverine's liver.

Right for the gallons of alcohol we'd consume. Might as well throw in Tony Stark's bank account because that's going to be one hell of a bar tab.

To tell the truth, I'm not sure if that pairing would be that big of a deal. Catwoman's been a hooker, she's been a single mom, when they outed her as bi; fans just shrugged.

Now Black Canary and a black man would cause some folks to lose their shit.

I suppose Selina fans are rather resilient when you think about it. With what I've seen when Dinah isn't paired with Oliver I can agree that the rage would be epic.

[ed2962]

Right for the gallons of alcohol we'd consume. Might as well throw in Tony Stark's bank account because that's going to be one hell of a bar tab.



I suppose Selina fans are rather resilient when you think about it. With what I've seen when Dinah isn't paired with Oliver I can agree that the rage would be epic.

I think part of it too is the good girl/bad girl thing. I can't remember his name, the black dude on Gotham PD who was the new Spectre for like five minutes...Crispin something? If he got with either Selina or white Huntress, most folks would probably go along with it. But if he got with Babs Gordan shit would hit the fan.

EDIT: I looked it up, Crispus Allen was who I was thinking of.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

Exactly, that's what throws me for a loop. This dude killed his pops, who literally was trying to save him. Hell, if Han was going at him gun blazing, they would have a slightly bigger leg to stand on, but Kylo isn't Zuko from Avatar. They're pretty much pairing Rey with a sci fi hitler.

Oh and let's not get started on the arrowverse. The madness I saw over Wally West and Jessie Quick made me hurl. And of course, the show splits them up in a quick minute.

And agreed regarding it being a mix, Yaoi and Yuri can be a dangerous thing sometimes lol.

Shippers don't always use logic and a lot of the time if a character is perceived as good looking enough even the worst of crimes can be overlooked. Prime example being Kilgrave.

The Arrowverse, particularly the Flash, can treat its supporting characters love lives like crap. Poor Caitlin can't smile at a dude without him dying or turning evil but Wally and Jesse felt like wasted potential.

I think part of it too is the good girl/bad girl thing. I can't remember his name, the black dude on Gotham PD who was the new Spectre for like five minutes...Crispin something? If he got with either Selina or white Huntress, most folks would probably go along with it. But if he got with Babs Gordan shit would hit the fan.

EDIT: I looked it up, Crispus Allen was who I was thinking of.

Now I find this to be interesting in that this mentality is laced with racism and misogyny. It's like only those poor misguided chicks go after black dudes, even if said dudes are decent people. Also I looked it up and Crispus hasn't appeared in recent years, except for like two episodes in Gotham and a bit part in Justice League.

[Agent Z]

You guys bring up some great points. I'm glad we brought this up because for the life of me I couldn't figure it out, cause it didn't really make sense to me. But it's also
a very important lesson regarding intersectionality.

And it's nuts, because you see the same madness with Finn. The shippers push Rey with Kylo, even though this dude is a mass murder, over Finn who was literally her first companion since who knows how long and was the first storm trooper to resist the first order.

It's like when nothing in society can surprise me anymore, something comes along that surprises me.

Like they write Jessica Jones to be so horrible to Luke Cage that they make it near impossible for people to successfully root for them. They could have just went along with bendis plot lines, but you know, you gotta keep those black men and white women away, can't have that in our society lol.

In fairness, I don't think that was about avoiding an interracial relationship but more because them being on separate tv series would make it hard to develop the relationship. There's a reason Buffy and Angel broke up just before he got his own spinoff. Luke and Jessica was never going to work out so long as neither was a supporting character to the other's series. Frankly they should have just left Luke out of Jessica's series given what they had her do to him. And if someone was going to get thrown under the bus I'd rather it not be the black person. Luke and Claire have a good relationship going and Jessica won't be relationship material til she gets her life together. Fortunately she's taking therapy as seen in the trailers but I don't think her and Luke is in the cards.

[Crazy Diamond]

There's DopeSpill comics, he's from Atlanta and he's made a lot of videos about black panther. There's also Rob from ComicsExplained. I watch his videos sometimes.

Edit: With regards to Killmonger, I knew this would happen, he was an anarchist who had no backup plan at all, because anarchists never have a plan, but people forget about the horrible things he did.

Killmonger was many things, but he was no anarchist. Anarchists don't tend to be for empires and states. If anything he was a nationalist.

He spoke of expanding territory and showing the glory of Wakanda to the world (via warfare) in the name of Black liberation. His idea of revolution was the use of secret cadre across the world to take over existing governments and fuel revolts. He didn't really think about what would come afterwards (assuming he didn't have ulterior motives but there weren't hints of that). Judging by the history of guerrilla warfare and national liberation, the rulers would've changed but the underlying power structures would've staid intact.

[anyajenkins]

I can't speak to shippers and shipper craziness, but a lot of the bad boy thing is internalized sexism, they need to prove themselves, to be good enough, and pretty enough and their love true enough and the psycho dude will be get better (and stop hurting them too. If he doesn't stop, we'll she wasn't good enough, and therefore deserves it.) If the bad guy has any remotely good qualities, then that proves his humanity and he should saved.

[Agent Z]

Right for the gallons of alcohol we'd consume. Might as well throw in Tony Stark's bank account because that's going to be one hell of a bar tab.



I suppose Selina fans are rather resilient when you think about it. With what I've seen when Dinah isn't paired with Oliver I can agree that the rage would be epic.

I think most of that rage would be from Oliver fans. Dinah fans would rather her be with Diana or Barbara. Or anyone but Oliver really.

As much as the fandom racism sickens me, I'm more bothered by the fact that when it comes to interracial relationships in superhero media, most of them involve a white person being one half of the pairing. Wally/Linda could have been one of the few Black/Asian pairings seen in superhero adaptations if they hadn't wasted her as a throwaway love interest on Barry.

[Agent Z]

Right for the gallons of alcohol we'd consume. Might as well throw in Tony Stark's bank account because that's going to be one hell of a bar tab.



I suppose Selina fans are rather resilient when you think about it. With what I've seen when Dinah isn't paired with Oliver I can agree that the rage would be epic.

I think most of that rage would be from Oliver fans. Dinah fans would rather her be with Diana or Barbara. Or anyone but Oliver really.

As much as the fandom racism sickens me, I'm more bothered by the fact that when it comes to interracial relationships in superhero media, most of them involve a white person being one half of the pairing. Wally/Linda could have been one of the few Black/Asian pairings seen in superhero adaptations if they hadn't wasted her as a throwaway love interest on Barry.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

In tumblr's defence on the Finn Poe thing the movie queer baited the hell out of them.

Eh, not really. The main force awaken scene that was brought up to illustrate chemistry was relatively subtle, especially in comparison to Finn's reactions and
dedication to Rey.

What queer baited the hell out of them was after the movie, and people was wanting to see Finn and Poe together, the actors who played Finn and Poe definitely baited them interviews. That's where they really got baited. It was the build up after the initial rise of popularity for the pairing that rose it to new heights. But that really only sparked after the initial high response of wanting to see them together.

As a gay Star wars fan I definitely believe most of the baiting came from stuff off-screen more than what actually happens in the movies. The main thing was that even before The Force Awakens premiered Oscar Issac said in an interview on Ellen that he was quote; "playing at romance with someone", and given how few characters Poe even interacts with in The Force Awakens he was obviously talking about biting his lip at Finn. That's what started the shipping of those two characters and I believe that was Oscar Isaac's doing, I don't even think Disney/Lucasfilm even realized what he was setting in motion.

Since then there's been stuff like Kathleen Kennedy saying that they're considering a Finn/Poe romance and the official visual guidebook for The Last Jedi said that Poe wears his mother's wedding ring as a necklace and he's waiting for the right romantic "partner" to give it to. And they specifically used that gender-neutral term partner.

I've said on this site before that as a gay Star Wars fan I don't expect Disney/Lucasfilm to actually allow Poe to be a gay or bi character. When people like JJ Abrams or the Russo brothers say there's going to be gay characters in Star Wars and the MCU eventually I just roll my eyes and assume they're trying to make themselves look good without actually commiting to giving us real representation.

[Gryphon]

Japanese wrestler Kairi Sane was subject to racist taunts by "fans" at a WWE NXT event.

http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018...ts-at-wwe-nxt/

[Anthony Shaw]

But what's funny is even with the pissed off fanbase, the Earth 2 book that feature Val Zod was doing pretty well in regards to sales. Tom Taylor was doing great things with the character. It's just that when the new writer came in and turn Earth 2 into a jobber fest for Darkseid is when things just went completely down hill. It's like how I said in the other forum. Some DC writers come in and start to do some great things, and then a new writer will come in a just straight destroy it. From Wonder Woman having the black lead, to Tom Taylor building DC's Miles Morales, one of the two biggest problems with DC is it's on self sabotaging attics and it's lack of commitment towards black characters.

What's even more funny is the Earth 2 book was by far DC's most diverse book in regards to teams. It was probably the only book that compared to the diversity seen in the ANAD side of Marvel. And then you look at the thread about what should be done with the Earth 2 heroes and then you REALLY see pretty much DC's other biggest problem.

And that's why I say DC's screwed. Their ridiculously conservative and nostalgic fanbase along with their own lack of commitment to black characters will never allow them to reach the same success that Marvel has with their minority characters. The only reason why I have a slither of hope for the company is because of Bendis. With Bendis doing the things he did with Miles, Riri, Luke, and Jessica, he's probably DC's only hope to get some decency under their belt.




And that's the thing, they were the perfect blend of similarities and differences. They both have the same powerset so you don't have to worry about one hero overshadowing the other, (something that's usually common among super hero couples unless they share similar strengths. It was one of the reasons why I liked Wonder Woman and Superman together) same background, yet their personalities were great contrast. PG being more direct, combative, and confident while Val Zod was a pacifist, idealistic, and humble.

While the PG and Mr.Terrific pairing had too many loose connections to really seem them as a couple, I thought PG and Val Zod together was one of the best pairings in recent memories.

You make great points!

[Vic Vega]

I can't speak to shippers and shipper craziness, but a lot of the bad boy thing is internalized sexism, they need to prove themselves, to be good enough, and pretty enough and their love true enough and the psycho dude will be get better (and stop hurting them too. If he doesn't stop, we'll she wasn't good enough, and therefore deserves it.) If the bad guy has any remotely good qualities, then that proves his humanity and he should saved.

You see a version of this with female villains too.

A really hot woman is NEVER beyond redemption in genre fiction. If she was then then the hero couldn't ever bang her.

And hot women that the audience identifier/hero in genre fiction CAN'T have aren't to be tolerated.

You are kinda seeing this with Harley Quinn right now. She's a canonical murdering nut job but she's not so bad because...she's cute?

It's not like she ever reformed/became sane.

All she did was realize that the Joker didn't care about her.