Hatred for the female love interest

[The Batlord]

They are poorly written characters. In the case of Laurel, fans love the heck out of Felicity Smoak, and she has definately been teased as a love interest for Oliver (I've only seen up to the first half of season 2, catching up fast). Also, I'm pretty sure no one hated Shado, Sarah, or Huntress (I know I did not). Laurel has had some pretty bad dialogue written for her. I'm not blaming the actress here as she is doing the best she can with what she is given.

Laurel's problem is that until she's Black Canary she has no purpose, other than being Oliver's ex. They seemed about to make her a Harvey Dent character in season 2 (DA working with Arrow and the cops), thereby giving her an actual place in the show, but haven't followed up on it at all. They've tried giving her other plotlines, but all they've done is led to inconsistent characterization (the addict thing).

[abmccray]

I do think female characters are held to a different standard than the male ones. Going back to "Gotham" people here seem to be fine with Maroni and Falcone (and love Penguin) but can't stand Fish. She's no different in her goals or being a bad person then them. The mayor is also corrupt but no one calls for his head. It's just odd to me.

Maroni and Falcone are, like the Penguin and Riddler, actual Batman villains that play a part in the development of many characters in the series. Fish is entirely created for the show, and will probably die, and is therefore viewed as a "distraction" by fans of the comics/series. Her 'sassy' attitude is undone by the knowledge that she will inevitably fail.

Also, Falcone is played by a guy who played a major character in what is often known as the greatest shows in the world, and Maroni is played by one of the few that people thought were actually likable in Dexter, while Fish is played by someone best known for being in the disappointing to many Matrix sequels and being Will Smith's wife. So, there's a little difference in initial reaction as well.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I also think that the female romantic interest is written badly at times because the show writers know well in advance that said character won't end up with the hero until the very end, if even then...so they can't write them to well in the early days of the show...and yeah Chloe and Felicity were brand new creations that go so famous and loved that they outshone the lead female romantic interest of their shows and got put into the comics as a result, Chloe anyway...not sure with Felicity...much like how on Buffy Spike went from a one off character to a main character because people loved him so much.

[Charmed]

They are poorly written characters. In the case of Laurel, fans love the heck out of Felicity Smoak, and she has definately been teased as a love interest for Oliver (I've only seen up to the first half of season 2, catching up fast). Also, I'm pretty sure no one hated Shado, Sarah, or Huntress (I know I did not). Laurel has had some pretty bad dialogue written for her. I'm not blaming the actress here as she is doing the best she can with what she is given.

Pretty sure a lot of people here and on the internet (where you'll find most of the "Laurel sucks because [insert reason here]) also had the same problems with Huntress. The character was annoying, the actress was pretty terrible (though she did get better), etc. I have no opinion on Shado. Sara/Sarah/Terrible Speech Maker is a somewhat pretty blonde in tight black leather that highlights all the right assets and practices She Fu. While her character isn't annoying, if she was, I'm sure a lot of people could have looked past it...if you know what I mean.

[cadet]

I think part of the problem is the bias in fiction against happy couples. They have to have the designated love interest create or be a magnet for drama, which makes her unlikeable.

I'd like to see more functioning, happy couples in fiction, but as there's no drama in it, it's rare.

[Guest_1001]

Misogyny, like racism, is a much more broad concept than the "worst" examples (which is why I used racism as an analogy). Misogyny is not just physically hurting or controlling women just like racism is not just outward discrimination. You're using the exact same argument people use when they say "that's not real racism, nobody is being lynched."

Misogyny touches on other things, like objectification, stereotyping, or how women are depicted, all based on some level of dislike of the gender in itself.

What sparked that whole discussion off was stating that the online vocal dislike for a lot of female characters has SOME basis/relation to misogyny , which is undeniable. All I have to do is go to a PUA forum and do some post histories for that. The argument is just TO WHAT DEGREE it is latent issues with women that causes this feedback, and what degree it is with them just being bad characters. But then you get into the question of WHY they're bad characters.

But your point about it being "real racism" or "not real racism" is completely flawed. You can't put something like stoning women on the same scale as disliking some fictional female characters. That's just ridiculous. And yes, online vocal dislike being related to misogyny certainly is deniable, regardless of how many PUA forums you visit. On that basis, I could say that feminism is all about hating men, which I'm sure many would deny.

Earlier on, you wrote "I just always find it as being actually dangerous that so many people decry the more subtle oppression as "not REALLY 'ism's," which only help to make them proliferate." To me, I think the exact opposite; throwing around terms that brand vast numbers of people as sexists (or racist, homophobic, etc.) is what's dangerous. You should never be comfortable with branding people bigots just because of a difference of opinion and it worries the hell out of me that it's often the case.

Would you prefer "sexism" then? Something's going on when love interest after love interest is poorly written and portrayed. Maybe that's the end with the sexism and fans react to it?

I do think female characters are held to a different standard than the male ones. Going back to "Gotham" people here seem to be fine with Maroni and Falcone (and love Penguin) but can't stand Fish. She's no different in her goals or being a bad person then them. The mayor is also corrupt but no one calls for his head. It's just odd to me.

I like Fish Mooney. And Sarah Essen too. Don't like Montoya or Selina Kyle. I did like Barbara but then the writers apparently had their "4:55 on a Friday" moment and wrote the godawful ending to the last episode. Penguin's mother can be very entertaining and I'm ... ambivalent towards Liza.

I don't see how "frequent poor writing" = "sexism" either. There's no cause and effect there. In fact, I haven't really seen evidence to suggest that love interest after love interest is poorly written.

[HUTHAIFA]

As a fan of Gotham, Barbara is a horrible girlfriend, because thats how the writer want it to be. Seriously unlikeable and untrustworthy.I dont see that hatred towards female love interest), where there is quite bit in comicbook fandom. Its just looking at the character that is presented.

[doodledude]

Kirsten Dunce was never Mary Jane.She's just not that good looking.Scarlett Johansson now that would have been a good Mary Jane.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

Good point.


X-Files fits that too, although Mulder and Scully weren't really an item. (Plus it's as old as Reboot.)

Not until season 6, which frankly ruined their characters for me (well that and the Biblical weight thrown onto their characters.) I liked when they were friends and the tension was there. Probably why I went bonkers for Krycek.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

You can have plenty of drama for a happy couple, it's just that writers tend to use every bit of drama for said couple as a will they/won't they stay together moment, normal daily life has it's own drama, couples fight and such all of the time and stay together for decades...

[JediMindTrick]

Lois Lane was wholly annoying for the first few seasons she started in Smallville, and that was shared by the majority of the fans during its airing. Perhaps in retrospect people like her more now, but that doesn't change the fact she was quite disliked because she was forced into the fold and was a pushy, loud and annoying person.

Lois did something that until it happened I thought was absolutely impossible on Smallville . . she made Lana look like a great character.

[electr1cgoblin]

Not really. An over-focusing on romantic relationships is a really "teenage" thing, as that's when hormones override everything, and that's the most important thing in your life. (Some) People grow beyond that into true adulthood and focus on other things or don't let that become the primary motivator/focus in their lives.

"Adult" things are maintaining a livable income and progressing in work, raising children, taking care of elderly and sick relatives, etc.

I think a huge issue is that romantic relationships often take up too much of the plot to a point of annoyance. You're dealing with world-ending threats, life altering technologies and magics, all of space and time, and the plot stops and focuses on a "will she, won't she" teenage relationship thing. It can be highly frustrating.

I do agree that female interests are often written badly because their point is often JUST to provide conflict for the main character. With that role, even when written well, the character is almost always, by default, an annoyance.

Great points. That was a big criticism I had of "Lost"(if I can switch media here for a bit), where, even though I liked the character of Kate (particularly first season Kate), the writers started making her entire role to be a ping pong ball between Jack and Sawyer. And yes, in the midst of incredible danger, intense conflict and fascinating mysteries, the "Jack or Sawyer?" plot would suddenly be put front and center, and it ended up looking more than a little silly.

I think writers just have a hard time balancing romance and drama in comics, and everywhere. It's a tricky business, one I'm sure I could not do well.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Lori was terrible in the comics too lol, the show just exaggerated her flaws. Some of these are related to shipping wars though, I mean let's be honest.

[spacegoatpurrp]

Wait I loved Lana Lang, until she started messing around with Lex, but I definitely hate Laurel her character on the show is so annoying. I like Barbra too.

[titanfan]

At least for me, we want the best for our main hero or heroine--so the love interest has to basically be worthy of the hero's love.

It's just like when you see your awesome guy/girl friend fall for someone horrible. You're like "WTF".

It's a tight line especially on a TV show--your love interest can't be too perfect because that's just not unrealistic and the character becomes not a real person, but if she has too many faults/needs to be rescued all the time/is an alcoholic, etc. I think the fans will revolt and be like "We wouldn't even date this person, how could XXXX?!?!?!"