What went wrong with the New Krypton Arc?

[Carabas]

You're entitled to your opinion of course.

However, editorial hasn't been a factor in Johns' writing for a long time. At least, insofar as I can see. He's ignored and altered continuity constantly in his time at DC, to the point that its become his hallmark as a writer.

His official job title at DC isn't writer. It's Chief Creative Officer. He's the guy that gets to tell editors what is and isn't in continuity, among other things.

[Tayswift]

His official job title at DC isn't writer. It's Chief Creative Officer. He's the guy that gets to tell editors what is and isn't in continuity, among other things.

his work is on multimedia properties, animated movies, tv shows, movies. he has little to do with the continuity on comics.

[Ascended]

His official job title at DC isn't writer. It's Chief Creative Officer. He's the guy that gets to tell editors what is and isn't in continuity, among other things.

This has been my understanding, but since I have never read DC's official description for the CCO position, I dont want to assume.

[Ascended]

superman change is very hard to pick, everyone thinks about man of steel or smallville, and think that is canon on comics. very easy to be confused. I don't think Johns is so much scott free of editors, seems like many things he had to do that he didn't wanted.
about wonder woman that now is the only child on paradise island, I think it is good change if erases bullying and the murdering amazons. Anyway azzarello run just ended, it's not like he had to change it on his own book because Johns did something, like that was the case of superman and ww hooking up.
altering runs happens all the time on comics.

I'm down with a more down to earth superman, that is good, calm. that is a completely different thing from expectation tha tpeople have for a god amongst men. nothing of supermacho stuff.
well continuity can easily bend depends of what editorial want , it seems

Editors should know what is and is not in continuity, and ensure that the writers dont stray (too far) off course. It's their job, "confusion" over multiple versions isnt an excuse.

As for whether the changes to the Amazons is a good thing or not, thats a moot point. Johns, once again, changed continuity for his own purposes. Maybe he knew what the current continuity was and ignored it, maybe he didnt know and it was an honest mistake. Either way, an editor (or Johns himself, if he's actually beyond their authority) should have checked that. One little line in a Justice League book has altered every facet of Themyscria and its long history. I approve of looser continuity, but the implications here go well beyond trying to work out a timeline between titles and has some surprisingly far reaching ramifications.

[Tayswift]

Editors should know what is and is not in continuity, and ensure that the writers dont stray (too far) off course. It's their job, "confusion" over multiple versions isnt an excuse.

As for whether the changes to the Amazons is a good thing or not, thats a moot point. Johns, once again, changed continuity for his own purposes. Maybe he knew what the current continuity was and ignored it, maybe he didnt know and it was an honest mistake. Either way, an editor (or Johns himself, if he's actually beyond their authority) should have checked that. One little line in a Justice League book has altered every facet of Themyscria and its long history. I approve of looser continuity, but the implications here go well beyond trying to work out a timeline between titles and has some surprisingly far reaching ramifications.

editors barely know what is going on in their books, earth 2 doesn't even know what is dick's son name.

He didn't need to change for his own purposes, he changed because he wanted it close to perez amazons. it wouldn't make a difference for his story.
or there is looser continuity or not, it was dc option for a looser continuity; Thinks like what johns did is very common if continuity isn't tight

[Stanlos]

Editorial is not Johns' problem with Superman. His problems writing Superman are his own: he writes him generic and boring, he's blindly loyal to Donnerverse concepts, and insists on focusing on the least interesting aspects of him (spends all his time reiterating his more Man than Super).

Hmmmmmmmmmm. I haven't ordered New Krypton yet but I did order Johns' Brainiac arc since I was able to grab it for 4USD. Does emphasis on Man over Super appear in the Brainiac stuff too?

Also, is this going to be the green humanoid Brainiac or the IMHO more interesting and more terrifying A.I. version with that creepy skeleton looking head and brain dome?

[Carabas]

Hmmmmmmmmmm. I haven't ordered New Krypton yet but I did order Johns' Brainiac arc since I was able to grab it for 4USD. Does emphasis on Man over Super appear in the Brainiac stuff too?

I dont recall...

Also, is this going to be the green humanoid Brainiac or the IMHO more interesting and more terrifying A.I. version with that creepy skeleton looking head and brain dome?

It's a whole new Brainiac that all previous Brainiacs were part of somehow.

[Ascended]

editors barely know what is going on in their books, earth 2 doesn't even know what is dick's son name.

He didn't need to change for his own purposes, he changed because he wanted it close to perez amazons. it wouldn't make a difference for his story.
or there is looser continuity or not, it was dc option for a looser continuity; Thinks like what johns did is very common if continuity isn't tight

Which is a pretty solid reason to get better editors, nothing more.

And no, the changes to Diana's past have no impact on Darkseid War, but they do have some huge ramifications on Diana.

To my mind, "looser continuity" means not having to worry about how Superman can be in space for six issues of Action Comics while also being in Metropolis in Superman and in the distant future in Justice League. It means Justice League not having to worry about short-term shake ups to an individual character's status quo, like JimBats and Truth Superman, so the story being told in JL doesnt get derailed.

Looser continuity should not mean you get to completely ignore the foundations and origins of a character you're using because you dont like it. In this continuity, Diana was raised among other children and is the daughter of Hippolyta (did I spell that wrong? looks wrong...) and Zeus. Changing that isnt looser continuity, its not having continuity at all, and its insulting to the people who poured their time and effort into her book. What fans may or may not feel about a particular book is irrelevant, in a shared, serialized continuity you take the good and the bad, you dont get to cherry-pick what you personally like. That's what fan headcanon is for.

[DieHard200904]

I was highly disappointed by the ending of New Krypton, that and Grounded. It felt like the writers got what I call "Trunky" where they figured," hey we're getting done with continuity so why should we care?"

[Stanlos]

^ Everything you said QFT.

Luthor and Gen Lane killing some 80,000 Kryptonians and it all being glossed over by Superman #700 and #701 (Grounded), unbelievable to me. Supes doesn't seek justice for his race or protest anything that mischracterizes his people. Despite Clark's job of being a reporter/journalism and exposing the truth and corruption of what Luthor and Lane were doing.

Grounded and Reign of Doomsday only further drove the Superman franchise into the ground. Thank god New 52 rebooted the Superman mythos. Although I am intrigued by how Convergence will handle Post-COIE Supes in this final tale.

Say WHAT?!!! Might you expound on that for me??? How in Briareos' bile did they manage that?

[Stanlos]

I dont recall...


It's a whole new Brainiac that all previous Brainiacs were part of somehow.

Thanks, Carabas! It sounds like this will be a Song of Fire & Retcons! Cannot wait for the animatronic pop-up buildings!

[manofsteel1979]

Say WHAT?!!! Might you expound on that for me??? How in Briareos' bile did they manage that?

It's been awhile since I've read WAR OF THE SUPERMEN,but If I rememeber correctly, Gen. Lane has the villain ReActron "enhanced" with Gold Kryptonite and infiltrate New Krypton. He's taken into custody, and when he is where he needs to be he detonates like a suicide nuke and destroys the whole planet killing most of the Kryptonians. Later, Luthor manages to temporarily turn Earth's Sun Red, robbing the powers of the Surviving Kryptonians in space (the remanants of Zod's army), and they suffocate.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Which is a pretty solid reason to get better editors, nothing more.

And no, the changes to Diana's past have no impact on Darkseid War, but they do have some huge ramifications on Diana.

To my mind, "looser continuity" means not having to worry about how Superman can be in space for six issues of Action Comics while also being in Metropolis in Superman and in the distant future in Justice League. It means Justice League not having to worry about short-term shake ups to an individual character's status quo, like JimBats and Truth Superman, so the story being told in JL doesnt get derailed.

Looser continuity should not mean you get to completely ignore the foundations and origins of a character you're using because you dont like it. In this continuity, Diana was raised among other children and is the daughter of Hippolyta (did I spell that wrong? looks wrong...) and Zeus. Changing that isnt looser continuity, its not having continuity at all, and its insulting to the people who poured their time and effort into her book. What fans may or may not feel about a particular book is irrelevant, in a shared, serialized continuity you take the good and the bad, you dont get to cherry-pick what you personally like. That's what fan headcanon is for.

You spelled Hippolyta right.

DC's version of "looser continuity" is a lot looser than your version of "looser continuity" (as well as the version I would like). It seems to me, at least, that the implications of a line in JLA about Wonder Woman is a question of complete irrelevance to them. And it differs from writer to writer. Geoff Johns (like John Byrne, once upon a time) seems to get to say anything he wants.

At least that's the way it looks.

In the current issue of Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death (issue #2), they completely toss aside the fact that Poison Ivy/Pamela Isley is a well-known wanted criminal, captured and imprisoned several times, and known to the authorities - and also that (as a research scientist with the title of "Doctor" at Wayne Enterprises, under her own name) she is someone who went to school, grad school, and wrote a Ph.D. thesis, and therefore is easily found on the interwebs. (Google is your friend!) Instead she is a cipher that the police have never heard of and can't find any information on.

They could have dealt with this fairly easily by having her working her current job under an assumed name. (Ivy Pepper?) And maybe using her powers to shift her appearance slightly. This is the kind of thing I'd hope a writer would think of, or an editor would mention. But if the corporate culture says "don't bother," then they won't bother.

[Stanlos]

It's been awhile since I've read WAR OF THE SUPERMEN,but If I rememeber correctly, Gen. Lane has the villain ReActron "enhanced" with Gold Kryptonite and infiltrate New Krypton. He's taken into custody, and when he is where he needs to be he detonates like a suicide nuke and destroys the whole planet killing most of the Kryptonians. Later, Luthor manages to temporarily turn Earth's Sun Red, robbing the powers of the Surviving Kryptonians in space (the remanants of Zod's army), and they suffocate.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I am glad to have this information; thank you, ManofSteel! I am a little disappointed that Superman doesn't solve this on his own (here again I am seeing similarities between the issues plaguing Wonder Woman and those troubling Superman as well).

I guess I should be happy that the Amazons remain depowered and completely ineffectual. If they were all their Hercules level selves then I imagine they too would be similarly wiped out.

[JackDaw]

Usual DC problem with Superman: there must be no permanent change to status quo set decades ago. So ending has to be a load of cobblers to re-set to "as before".

Like all rules, there must be one exception. And unfortunately DC seems to have decided to make it turning Wonder Woman into his love interest rather than Lois. ( I suppose I should have predicted that by assuming DC would make the one long term change that would piss me off the most.)