Wonder Woman #36 Spoilers

[Mart]

Those reviews hold no credibility with me. They all reference the alleged greatness of Azzarello's run. When you go in wanting to hate something (subconsciously or otherwise) that's pretty much what's going to happen.

You really believe that if someone likes one run, they're unable to give another a chance? That would be closed thinking of the type you're implying in the reviewers.

[Pinsir]

I still find it difficult to reconcile the continuity problems, but I think if you did not like Azz's run you probably did like this issue.

[Dr. Poison]

If I were thinking of people had said so outright, I probably would have said "are," not "may." But, just as you "find it hard to imagine" that people first drawn to WW by Azz would like this run, I find it hard to imagine that people who disliked Azz's run would not be at least a little predisposed to like this one by the fact that it is, in some ways, a departure from his. If this run had come right after Simone's or Heinberg's or Jiminez's, ins't it possible that you would have been comparing it to theirs and that it would have looked worse by comparison? Or, conversely, isn't it possible that this run look better to you by contrast with Azz's than it would look otherwise? Of course, it goes without saying that such a predisposition could have been overridden by another factor, like if the new run had a writer whom you already disliked.

None of us are objective. Again, why should we be objective about what comics we like? "Liking" is not objective.

While I don't claim to be completely objective, I will say that I'd like to enjoy this book, and it certainly doesn't have to be just like Azz's for me to enjoy it. Zola and the gods don't have to be in it, for example--though of course I'd be glad if they were, as long as they were well portrayed. But, for me, the dialogue needs to be more interesting and better crafted, and Diana should be portrayed as more self-assured and mature. I'm pretty sure I'd feel that way no matter which run this followed.

Well, I'll be very honest and say that after how horrible i thought Azz's run was, there really was nowhere to go but "up" but at the same time, I wouldn't have rated Meredith's first issue at 8.5 if I didn't honestly think it deserved it. To give you more perspective, I would have given most of Azz's issues a 2 or a 3 so even though most anything would have been better, there is a lot of wiggle room between a 3 and an 8.5.

A lot of my reasoning for finding it hard to imagine those who first started reading Wonder Woman with Azz would like Meredith's run is largely because of these factors:


1.) The book is clearly now part of the greater New 52 universe.

2.) The Olympians, Orion, and Zola(all of which were major supporting characters) are nowhere in sight.

3.) The art and the coloring are very different from the previous run.

4.) The tone of the book appears to be lighter and absent of Azzarello's deviant elements like beastiality, cannibalism, and sexual assault.


With the exception of my last point, many of the people who appreciated Azz's run often stated that the main reasons they liked it were because it was almost totally cut-off from the rest of the New 52, the supporting cast, and the art/colors. With all of these things very different now, is it really a stretch to think this run wouldn't be up most Azz-fans' alley?

[Vonter Voman]

It's bad because it's bad.

My only gripe about what this did to the previous run was how fast and without substance Hippolyta was "killed" when I was eager to see what would happen next with clay statue Hippolyta, since she didn't have an end in the previous run.

And I don't know where is the "lighter tone", certainly not on the art. Maybe on the vegetative injustice. Or because of the plug-ins in the watchtower.

Now about the art, this is what will be missed most from Chiang: facial expressions range.

Just look at this... Diana has the same face in every. single. panel. Even when she has her eyes closed.

WW.jpg

I guess Finch is at least consistent, though. If it was Tony Daniel, her face would be completely different in each panel even with the same expression.

[borntohula]

Well, I'll be very honest and say that after how horrible i thought Azz's run was, there really was nowhere to go but "up" but at the same time, I wouldn't have rated Meredith's first issue at 8.5 if I didn't honestly think it deserved it. To give you more perspective, I would have given most of Azz's issues a 2 or a 3 so even though most anything would have been better, there is a lot of wiggle room between a 3 and an 8.5.

A lot of my reasoning for finding it hard to imagine those who first started reading Wonder Woman with Azz would like Meredith's run is largely because of these factors:


1.) The book is clearly now part of the greater New 52 universe.

2.) The Olympians, Orion, and Zola(all of which were major supporting characters) are nowhere in sight.

3.) The art and the coloring are very different from the previous run.

4.) The tone of the book appears to be lighter and absent of Azzarello's deviant elements like beastiality, cannibalism, and sexual assault.


With the exception of my last point, many of the people who appreciated Azz's run often stated that the main reasons they liked it were because it was almost totally cut-off from the rest of the New 52, the supporting cast, and the art/colors. With all of these things very different now, is it really a stretch to think this run wouldn't be up most Azz-fans' alley?

The Azzarello/Chiang-run seems to be quite popular to discuss for non-Azz-fans

About the new run. There's only one issue out. There'll probably be more build up in the upcoming issues.

[Dr. Poison]

The Azzarello/Chiang-run seems to be quite popular to discuss for non-Azz-fans

About the new run. There's only one issue out. There'll probably be more build up in the upcoming issues.

Come on, borntohula, you're usually a pretty reasonable person. Didn't you start reading Wonder Woman with Azz's run? Do you see many similarities between Azz's run and Meredith's so far?

[Razor Tiara]

You really believe that if someone likes one run, they're unable to give another a chance? That would be closed thinking of the type you're implying in the reviewers.

No, but I think Azz fans regret the end of his run and this issue wasn't enough like one of his for them to enjoy it.

[Vonter Voman]

Still with the "regretment" thing, huh? I said back then people mostly enjoyed it, and now this is evident by the rates given displayed on comic book roundup. Isn't this the proof you needed?

And now that we know some things were left to be resolved in the current run, I'm even more happy about the ending.

Well, I'll be very honest and say that after how horrible i thought Azz's run was, there really was nowhere to go but "up"

Funny coming from the person who said "Anyone but Azzarello" wasn't true.

[borntohula]

Come on, borntohula, you're usually a pretty reasonable person. Didn't you start reading Wonder Woman with Azz's run? Do you see many similarities between Azz's run and Meredith's so far?

I almost didn't read superhero comics before giving Azz/Chiang's run a chance.

As said, there's one issue out as of yet. I'll give it a couple of issues till I decide what to make of it. And while I saw/sense some similarites, it doesn't bother me much if they're doing something else. It's Finchs run, not the last creative team. I'm hoping they get to do their own thing.

I don't compare Azz/Chiang's with Perez run either. I know whom of them I like the most, but for me it's not some competetion.

No, but I think Azz fans regret the end of his run and this issue wasn't enough like one of his for them to enjoy it.

I don't. I love the ending. WW#35 followed by WW#Secret Origins. Makes the story go full circle and puts a focus on Athena's involvment in Diana's journey. Left me satisfied while wanting to read more WW stuff.

[Vonter Voman]

Despite the obvious difference in quality and the guest stars galore for the sake of it, yes, it's very similar. Much more similar than any other run. Justice Leaguers appearing on it doesn't make it more like pre-new 52.





And it's only going to get more similar with the God of War stuff.

[Dr. Poison]

Still with the "regretment" thing, huh? I said back then people mostly enjoyed it, and now this is evident by the rates given displayed on comic book roundup. Isn't this the proof you needed?

And now that we know some things were left to be resolved in the current run, I'm even more happy about the ending.



Funny coming from the person who said "Anyone but Azzarello" wasn't true.

In regards to your last comment. It's true, I think that Azz's run was the worst ever but there are plenty of other creators I would not want on this book and I would have not bought issue #36 if it was by one of them.

[Dr. Poison]

Despite the obvious difference in quality and the guest stars galore for the sake of it, yes, it's very similar. Much more similar than any other run. Justice Leaguers appearing on it doesn't make it more like pre-new 52.





And it's only going to get more similar with the God of War stuff.

One conversation between Wonder Woman and Dessia does not make Azz and Finch's runs similar.

[Vonter Voman]

There's 20 pages in this issue and more than 700 in Azz/Chiang run. I'm pretty sure at least Demeter is similar to Swamp Thing.

[napolid]

A lot of my reasoning for finding it hard to imagine those who first started reading Wonder Woman with Azz would like Meredith's run is largely because of these factors:


1.) The book is clearly now part of the greater New 52 universe.

2.) The Olympians, Orion, and Zola(all of which were major supporting characters) are nowhere in sight.

3.) The art and the coloring are very different from the previous run.

4.) The tone of the book appears to be lighter and absent of Azzarello's deviant elements like beastiality, cannibalism, and sexual assault.

If that is what you truly believe then you will never understand our point of view.

[Silvanus]

Well, I'll be very honest and say that after how horrible i thought Azz's run was, there really was nowhere to go but "up" but at the same time, I wouldn't have rated Meredith's first issue at 8.5 if I didn't honestly think it deserved it. To give you more perspective, I would have given most of Azz's issues a 2 or a 3 so even though most anything would have been better, there is a lot of wiggle room between a 3 and an 8.5.

I'm sure you honestly think it deserves it, but how can even you know if you would have felt the same way if the book came out right after Jiminez? You don't even have to know this; your opinion is totally valid, whether it's affected by the prior run or not. But so is everyone else's; no one is objective.

A lot of my reasoning for finding it hard to imagine those who first started reading Wonder Woman with Azz would like Meredith's run is largely because of these factors:


1.) The book is clearly now part of the greater New 52 universe.

2.) The Olympians, Orion, and Zola(all of which were major supporting characters) are nowhere in sight.

3.) The art and the coloring are very different from the previous run.

4.) The tone of the book appears to be lighter and absent of Azzarello's deviant elements like beastiality, cannibalism, and sexual assault.

With the exception of my last point, many of the people who appreciated Azz's run often stated that the main reasons they liked it were because it was almost totally cut-off from the rest of the New 52, the supporting cast, and the art/colors. With all of these things very different now, is it really a stretch to think this run wouldn't be up most Azz-fans' alley?

I, as one of "the people who appreciated Azz's run," I can tell you that none of those changes will not me from liking this one if it develops an interesting new voice of its own. It just hasn't started to do that yet, in my view.. And believe me, if it had Zola and the gods in it and art and coloring more similar to the old run and had no references to the rest of the DCU but still had this writing and this juvenile writing, I still wouldn't be impressed.