Wonder Woman #36 Spoilers

[sberg1]

His story didn't incorporate any of the greater DC universe at all, not even a mention.

First, even if what you say is true (which it's not), what's wrong with that?

Second, the greater DCU was mentioned plenty - and I feel like you're purposefully ignoring Orion and the New Gods usage in the run.

[Andrew Eldritch]

I remember back in 2010, when the prologue and the first chapter of Superman's "Grounded" were released and people were making up excuses just to have something with which to bash the story and JMS.

Well, looking through this thread, it's deja vu all over again...

[Kid A]

I remember back in 2010, when the prologue and the first chapter of Superman's "Grounded" were released and people were making up excuses just to have something with which to bash the story and JMS.

Because we all know that turned out to be a masterpiece?

[DochaDocha]

I remember back in 2010, when the prologue and the first chapter of Superman's "Grounded" were released and people were making up excuses just to have something with which to bash the story and JMS.

Well, looking through this thread, it's deja vu all over again...

Now, to be fair, I think a lot of fans looked at the premise for "Grounded" and figured it would be a hot mess, and it was.

I don't think Meredith Finch should've received all the grief she got prior to the book's release, and I think a lot of people who were preemptively piling on will continue being harsh because they don't want to to say mea culpa at any point, but it's open season now that issue one of the run is out. There actually is material to praise or decry.

[Andrew Eldritch]

Because we all know that turned out to be a masterpiece?

Okay, it's not JMS' best work and neither the greatest Superman story ever*. But, a lot of people were pissed off because of the ending of "One More Day"**. So, even before the story began, these people already were sure that would be bad. And i'm seeing the same thing happening with the Finchs.

*And, IMHO and contrary to popular belief, it got worst with Chris Roberson on board.
**Ignoring the fact that "One More Day" was Joe Quesada's idea.

[Gaelforce]

Let's keep on topic, folks.

[BlueEcho]

What's critical about that? The guy's review boils down to "I like that it's connected to the rest of the DCU. 9/10. Go buy it."

So I am the guy in question. One of my first impressions of people commenting on this is that they are used to only the new 52 WW and not so much the previous stuff from years gone by. I have read WW back to before Crisis on Infinite Earths and in terms of a handover this one isn't as bad. Messner Loebs ended up having a pretty memorable run on WW, but in the early days people were a little disgusted, what with Diana working in a Mexican restaurant to pay the bills. And anyone that has never read it should be thankful that they didn't have to endure the John Byrne run on the character. That said, we are not talking about the past, we are talking about this issue which still has to stand on its own merits and for me it does. I like WW enough for her mythological aspect, but when the series is buried in it, then it suffers. So Azzarello's run was good for writing but bad for plot for me. Really I have no concern about superheroes running around in Hades, trying to broker some kind of deal with the ruler of the underworld. How is this so different from the recycled plot lines that are present throughout everything at Grimm Fairy Tales for instance? Gods among us? Yawn. I prefer Wonder Woman more grounded in the real world, or at least the real comic book world where she can face the Cheetah or Dr. Psycho or Devastation or Genocide. Azzarello's run was good, no doubt, and I did like it, but how to follow it? Remember the first appearances of Hush after the first major story arc? He felt kind of neutered compared to the mastermind that was in the Hush storyline. If the Finches tried to keep something going with the First Born then it would be the same sub-standard result, and so the only logical place to go is back to the rest of the DCU.

I think too that Azarello missed too the inherent qualities of the character, going back as least as far as halfway through the first half of the original series, that Wonder Woman is not really so much interested in the fighting part of her role, only that it becomes necessary a lot. She always looks (or at least looked) for a peaceful solution to killing before, but Azzarello changed her into the Goddess of War, to which a lot of people replied "she's such a bad-ass" without realizing that this somewhat betrayed who she is a character. Charles Soule even touched on this in Futures End, pointing out that her being the Goddess of War would lead her to ruin until she accepted peace again. On the whole, Azzarello was good, and a lot of what he did revolutionized the canon of the character, but the Finches have the task now of taking this character into the rest of the DCU, and what they accomplished here is at least an effective bridge.

[borntohula]

His story didn't incorporate any of the greater DC universe at all, not even a mention.

The story -IMO- incorporated the greatest part of it. New gods.

Whoa--you do deserve a medal! Nicely done.

The forecast for today is a medal rain !!!

Wasn't that hard actually. Especially not since it's an estimated time frame. Also, the colours really helps. Making it easy to skim through the pages while noting day/night cycles.

I just hope it makes sense to those wondering if the book is told in real time or such.

First, even if what you say is true (which it's not), what's wrong with that?

Second, the greater DCU was mentioned plenty - and I feel like you're purposefully ignoring Orion and the New Gods usage in the run.

Constantine was also seen walking by in WW#19!

[Darius]

Well the time frame in the book is said to be around 7000 years as whole. First born's birth up till modern day.

But outside that. I just went trough the pages of the books (I have vol 1-5 of those, collecting WW#1-29) and the remaining by reading the issues. I counted day/night cycles (and took some account to time differences Europe/Asia and M'urica), other visual clues (for example Hera monitoring and hunting WW&c/o) and dialogue.

WW#1-4 -3 days tops
WW#5-12 A couple of days. (citing Zola after escaping hell.)
WW#13 - 18 Not many days either (no time to waste finding Zeke)
WW#19 - 23 1 day i London 3-4 on New Genesis.
WW#24 - 29 Day or two after Ares' death. 1 day looking for Zola and Zeke.
WW#30 - 35 4-5 tops. Amazons hurrying in preparing for an attack on heaven.

It's made quite clear both in the pages and interviews that the story moves fast.

Yup ... when you read the whole thing all in one sitting it's really clear that the entire story takes place in a few weeks (maybe a couple of months) tops.

EDIT: but it doesn't necessarily match up clearly with the rest of ongoing continuity because the SM/WW relationship and book sort of throws off the pacing of when things happen in her solo title.

[borntohula]

Things are starting to sink in for me. What I'm most intrigued by is the amazon politics.

The statue thing doesn't bother me much now. Since even if a continuity error, it's easily overlooked being that she was clay either way. I just hope she's back to life soon enough.

[Gaelforce]

Things are starting to sink in for me. What I'm most intrigued by is the amazon politics.

The statue thing doesn't bother me much now. Since even if a continuity error, it's easily overlooked being that she was clay either way. I just hope she's back to life soon enough.

I've decided that, until an answer is supplied, I'm going with 'Hippolyta was an animated statue to defend Themyscira and then returned to being un-animated after the battle was over.'

[tabo61]

I like Finch's arwork. Clever way they thought of to put Swamp Thing in this issue. Sounds like Diana's looking at a Amazon revolt against her due to having men on the island and with her mom being dead (until she find some way to resurrect her).

[LoneNecromancer]

Okay, it's not JMS' best work and neither the greatest Superman story ever*. But, a lot of people were pissed off because of the ending of "One More Day"**. So, even before the story began, these people already were sure that would be bad. And i'm seeing the same thing happening with the Finchs.

*And, IMHO and contrary to popular belief, it got worst with Chris Roberson on board.
**Ignoring the fact that "One More Day" was Joe Quesada's idea.

JMS between OMD and Grounded had written successful things like his Thor run and Brave and the Bold.

The Finchs are two people, one of which has written some of the worst stories published by DC over the past few years and the other which counts this issue as her second ever writing credit.

That should tell you why people disliked this creative team without having seen an issue. Now they've seen one. And it's bad.

[SonOfBaldwin]

Some of the reviews of WONDER WOMAN #36 are in:

http://www.comicosity.com/review-wonder-woman-36/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/...36feb87e000044

http://multiversitycomics.com/review...es-run-review/

http://www.newsarama.com/22793-best-...l-10-more.html

[LoneNecromancer]

So I am the guy in question. One of my first impressions of people commenting on this is that they are used to only the new 52 WW and not so much the previous stuff from years gone by. I have read WW back to before Crisis on Infinite Earths and in terms of a handover this one isn't as bad. Messner Loebs ended up having a pretty memorable run on WW, but in the early days people were a little disgusted, what with Diana working in a Mexican restaurant to pay the bills. And anyone that has never read it should be thankful that they didn't have to endure the John Byrne run on the character. That said, we are not talking about the past, we are talking about this issue which still has to stand on its own merits and for me it does. I like WW enough for her mythological aspect, but when the series is buried in it, then it suffers. So Azzarello's run was good for writing but bad for plot for me. Really I have no concern about superheroes running around in Hades, trying to broker some kind of deal with the ruler of the underworld. How is this so different from the recycled plot lines that are present throughout everything at Grimm Fairy Tales for instance? Gods among us? Yawn. I prefer Wonder Woman more grounded in the real world, or at least the real comic book world where she can face the Cheetah or Dr. Psycho or Devastation or Genocide. Azzarello's run was good, no doubt, and I did like it, but how to follow it? Remember the first appearances of Hush after the first major story arc? He felt kind of neutered compared to the mastermind that was in the Hush storyline. If the Finches tried to keep something going with the First Born then it would be the same sub-standard result, and so the only logical place to go is back to the rest of the DCU.

I think too that Azarello missed too the inherent qualities of the character, going back as least as far as halfway through the first half of the original series, that Wonder Woman is not really so much interested in the fighting part of her role, only that it becomes necessary a lot. She always looks (or at least looked) for a peaceful solution to killing before, but Azzarello changed her into the Goddess of War, to which a lot of people replied "she's such a bad-ass" without realizing that this somewhat betrayed who she is a character. Charles Soule even touched on this in Futures End, pointing out that her being the Goddess of War would lead her to ruin until she accepted peace again. On the whole, Azzarello was good, and a lot of what he did revolutionized the canon of the character, but the Finches have the task now of taking this character into the rest of the DCU, and what they accomplished here is at least an effective bridge.

Hey.

I don't think my previous comment was very clear, I wasn't saying that it being connected to the DCU or liking that was a bad thing. The review was lacking in that it mainly talked about plot elements and then what is basically stuff outside the story- its connection to the DCUs, which like I said, has little to do with its quality- but seemed to put less attention on the actual craft of the comic: the writing style, the pacing, the storytelling techniques, the characterisation of the new characters (who is basically everyone in this issue) etc. That's why to me it didn't feel like a very good review.

I wasn't really talking about the Azz run, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone on various sites talk about Wonder Woman being "bad-ass" about her becoming God of War. It would be a betrayal of her character if she was indeed turning into a blood-fuelled berserker craving war (sort of like Ares in Greek myth, while Athena was also a goddess of war, but perceived as a different facet of it) but even Ares was sick of that in the Azz run, which is itself pretty telling that God of War includes many things. I think it's an interesting direction for the character, adding some conflict to her that you wouldn't normally see, and is no more betraying to her than the basic idea of superheros being against crime but acting as vigilantes solving most of their problems by beating the crap out of people.