Superman/Wonder Woman #13 Spoilers

[borntohula]

Looks better than it reads.

I think the structure with a "5 years ago" followed by a today is a good way of selling SM and WW's "thing". Less T'n'A focused posing while hugging and instead making giving them giver/taker-roles.

-Diana is shown to be head on and Clark a bit to helpful. Not much nuance and it certainly makes SM look better than WW, perhaps it can be shown as different in later issues.
-They're on a date night, which turns into a fight with "Major disaster" and "Atomic skull". Skull excuses himself for his nuke puke.
-SM and WW are down and the villains flee the scene, but then "Wonderstar" appears and gets hold of them.

For me this did a better sell than the SM/WW issues before it about them being a couple, but I'm not so sure about the writing. Alot of the dialogue could probably have looked "better" as caption boxes over explaining what's going on or something.

Quite alright issue. I'll give it another one, next month.

[Silvanus]

-Diana is shown to be head on and Clark a bit to helpful. Not much nuisance and it certainly makes SM look better than WW, perhaps it can be shown as different in later issues.

Yeah--for me, her portrayal "now" is worse, in some ways. Even without being new to the world beyond the island, and without a fight against parademons in progress, she seems pretty impatient, arrogant, somewhat cold, and still spoiling for fight. I agree with Javier (on the preview thread) that past of the problem is the art, which I think make her look harsh.

it's bad writing, you know it.

Just pasting this in from the preview thread to say yes, while I thought the preview might be setting up something good, now that I've read the issue, I agree that it's pretty bad writing. Apart from the bad characterization of DIna, the scenes with the supervillains struck me as pretty generic and uninteresting, and most of the dialogue throughout was fairly flat. I'll probably get it next month, but I'm not sure how long I'll stay with it.

[borntohula]

Yeah--for me, her portrayal on the :now" later is worse, in some ways. Even without being new to the world beyond the island, and without a fight against parademons in progress, she seems pretty impatient, arrougant, somewhat cold, and still spoiling for fight. I afree with Javier (on the preview thread) that past of the problem is the art, which I think make her look harsh.

Funny, I misspelled nuance as "nuisance". Quite true to how she's portrayed in this issue.

Just pasting this in from the preview thread to say yes, while I thought the preview might be setting up something good, now that I've read the issue, I agree that it's pretty bad writing. Apart from the bad characterization of DIna, the scenes with the supervillains struck me as pretty generic and uninteresting, and most of the dialogue throughout was fairly flat. I'll probably get it next month, but I'm not sure how long I'll stay with it.

I really wish Diana used more brain than Barda in some of the scenes. For example grabbing the cab, by stepping out in front of one to stop it, instead of persuade Clark (who's at fault) into letting them take one themselves.

[napolid]

Still don't understand WTH Diana was doing in the opening part, I mean the man was dying and she was commenting on how weak the human race was.

Apart from Diana's bad characterization I actually enjoyed the issue, a much better start to a run that WW #36.

[Blacksun]

Yeah--for me, her portrayal "now" is worse, in some ways. Even without being new to the world beyond the island, and without a fight against parademons in progress, she seems pretty impatient, arrogant, somewhat cold, and still spoiling for fight. I agree with Javier (on the preview thread) that past of the problem is the art, which I think make her look harsh.



Just pasting this in from the preview thread to say yes, while I thought the preview might be setting up something good, now that I've read the issue, I agree that it's pretty bad writing. Apart from the bad characterization of DIna, the scenes with the supervillains struck me as pretty generic and uninteresting, and most of the dialogue throughout was fairly flat. I'll probably get it next month, but I'm not sure how long I'll stay with it.

the dialogue was pretty generic and flat like you said. Diana characterization wasn't better than the flashback. She doing a Bword face because clark was passing the taxis to another couples that needed it more. page before they were flying lol
also ww still do not comprehend how clark/superman does his things, like for example writing...really? she know the man she is dating?lol

[VIKING]

BY MJOLNIR, I'll never understand why some men's portrayal of "feminism" in action with female characters always seem to embody every bad stereotype about men. YES, YES, we know, that if men and women are equal, then women can certainly be just as "bad" as men can be, but COME ON. She's cold, brash, hot headed, pig headed, reads as rather unempathetic and antipathetic, is impatient and impetuous and has an eternal bloodlust. Huh???? Meanwhile, Clark comes off as totally likable, and dare I say, embodies the BEST of man. Terrible. Just terrible. The fact that the plot and story line was bland and pedestrian to boot makes it all the MORE terrible.

[SXVA]

BY MJOLNIR, I'll never understand why some men's portrayal of "feminism" in action with female characters always seem to embody every bad stereotype about men. YES, YES, we know, that if men and women are equal, then women can certainly be just as "bad" as men can be, but COME ON.

Completely agree, not a fan of that interpretation of feminism. I'll never get the appeal of being like those type of males in general but to do it in the name of feminism is mind blowing to me. Unfortunately it's not exclusive to some men's portrayal, however... it seems some Females also embrace this portrayal as well.

[Sacred Knight]

I'll be lazy and just post my characterization thoughts verbatim from the superman forum.

I enjoyed it a lot. Frankly I had no issues with Diana's depiction after the five years ago segment, which I discussed enough the past couple days. The date stuff, I found that all classic date trope stuff which hurt no one's characterization. Its date night, they're excited, but one is running late with work while the other is getting antsy. The typewriter comment didn't even register, as I think anyone would wonder why he wasn't using a modern piece of tech to craft his story. As to her asking why he didn't write at super speed, again, another reasonable question, because we know it can be done. Waiting for a taxi in the rain...again I saw nothing mean spirited about her, just light-hearted annoyance that they were still running late. Cliché dating tropes that I thought was rather fun.

All in all it didn't impress me the way Soule/Daniel and #1 did, but it had and kept my interest the whole way.

[Lax]

I'll be lazy and just post my characterization thoughts verbatim from the superman forum.

I enjoyed it a lot. Frankly I had no issues with Diana's depiction after the five years ago segment, which I discussed enough the past couple days. The date stuff, I found that all classic date trope stuff which hurt no one's characterization. Its date night, they're excited, but one is running late with work while the other is getting antsy. The typewriter comment didn't even register, as I think anyone would wonder why he wasn't using a modern piece of tech to craft his story. As to her asking why he didn't write at super speed, again, another reasonable question, because we know it can be done. Waiting for a taxi in the rain...again I saw nothing mean spirited about her, just light-hearted annoyance that they were still running late. Cliché dating tropes that I thought was rather fun.

All in all it didn't impress me the way Soule/Daniel and #1 did, but it had and kept my interest the whole way.

I'll do the same, minus the parts meant for posters in another thread.

Wonder Woman: "Why does this take so long?"

Wondy wasn't really being impatient per-se, Supes told her he'd be done with the task in 10 mins. Which was an hour ago and counting, so Wondy spoke up. They've presumably made plans to go out on this date and considering how limited their free time is, Supes was being very rude. His reasons were noble, but as a professional writer he knows what he's doing isn't some quick 10 minute job, so don't tell her it is because that will give her expectations.

For her part she could have handled it better, as "Do you need to learn more words?" is not a cool thing to say to somebody. I don't believe her intent was malicious so much as not thinking things through before she speaks. It's as if she has no filter between thinking and speaking.

Wonder Woman: "Why are you using this ancient relic instead of your laptop?"

On the one hand, this is a legitimate question, it's strange to use a type writer over a computer. On the other hand, she herself comes from and embraces an ancient Greek culture so if anyone could understand an odd fondness for using old technology...

Wonder Woman: "That's the fourth taxi you've given to someone else."

I'm sorry, but as kind as that is he was also being incredibly inconsiderate. He tells complete strangers to "stay dry" while his girlfriend is waiting out in the rain? Come on big blue. Although I loved her reaction, she didn't blow up at him but she still made her feelings known through body-language and action. Her attitude said "You gave up four taxis and it's raining, there will not be a fifth!"

I liked this issue, they felt less like icons and more like people. Wonder Woman is blunt in her honesty to a fault, while Superman is so considerate toward strangers that he ends up being inconsiderate to the one he knows.

[Silvanus]

the dialogue was pretty generic and flat like you said. Diana characterization wasn't better than the flashback. She doing a Bword face because clark was passing the taxis to another couples that needed it more. page before they were flying lol
also ww still do not comprehend how clark/superman does his things, like for example writing...really? she know the man she is dating?lol

Yeah--her raising an eyebrow at the "archaic" typewriter struck me as particularly odd, since she runs around with swords; Heph remarked in WW 8 about her "archaic" choices of weaponry, and she said that was just how she was raised.

[Sacred Knight]

Because its out of place in this particular setting. Swords and the like are not out of place within her society and culture. An old-school typewriter being used in a modern day American apartment instead of a PC, laptop, or tablet, is out of place.

[Frank]

WORST. DATE. EVER.

I can only imagine that Superman was grateful for the emergency and thinking, "This'll get this harpy off my back!"

Seriously, it'd be nice if Tomasi had remembered 3 things:

1. Diana isn't a shrew.
2. Diana is compassionate.
3. Diana generally likes people.

None of that showed through here. And what was the point of showing the date night, anyway? Character assassination? I just find it bewildering that the most interesting pages were the pages we saw in the previews. The rest of this is worse than filler - it's dreck filler. None of their interaction gives me any clue as to why, specifically, Clark would date Diana. She complains and complains, and then essentially says "I only value that you want to honor the dead because it makes you happy, but it's weird." She's still complaining hours later about not getting a cab when they both can fly and are already soaking wet. And the battle is just throwaway stuff to introduce "Wonderstar" - a costume character who's moniker is more aligned to Wonder Woman AND he's just as bloodthirsty in his first bit of dialogue as Diana when she just wants to "beat the hell out of who's causing this."

In contrast (and bizarrely), we have a MUCH more compassionate Diana over in JLA from the pen of Johns, the writer who set the tone for bloodthirsty Diana in the nu52. But at least that Diana found joy in things while stabbing Darkseid in the eye. Tomasi's Diana is self-centered, arrogant, hostile AND bloodthirsty. And when she does smile, it seems so disingenuous, because it's a nanosecond after she's been an a-hole. Yeeesh.

Frankly, I liked the first five pages that we saw in preview - at least Superman and Diana both had flaws - but I really disliked the rest of this comic. If this proves to be the way Tomasi writes Diana in the next issue or two, I'm off this horror train.

It's as if Tomasi decided to dress Maxima in star-spangled tights and dye her hair. So disappointing.

And as far as this typewriting/writing process thing, Superman says "I've explained this a hundred times..." So she never listens to him? Why is he with this jerk? Gah! So awful.

[ekrolo2]

I was pretty skeptical that Tomasi could continue the books (mostly) great quality despite me really loving Batman & Robin for over 3 years now but Superman alone was enough for me to love this. Its so great seeing a Superman who's equal parts kind and considerate but also willing to voice his dislike of others actions and call them out on it. Wondie was.... weird for me. I like the "she's blunt to the point of coming off as kind of a jerk" but its still feels kind of weird for me atm.

[DochaDocha]

I would just add that if you're using a typewriter instead of a laptop, you almost certainly are doing so for a very specific, idiosyncratic reason*. It would be like eschewing a ballpoint pen because you like your quill and inkwell set, or you just really like going Flintstones-style and prefer chiseling out your words on a slab of stone. But then again, we all know how All-Star Superman writes his memoirs. What a weird guy...

Anyway, my big concern about this issue was that it seems obvious Tomasi went for comedy, and for me it came up a little short. Clark is clearly a dork, and it annoys an impatient Diana, but the level of comedy was mostly mediocre and not that memorable.

*Edit: i.e., if someone saw you using a typewriter these days, you almost certainly can expect that person to wonder why are you using that, whether that person asks you directly or not.

[Blind Target]

Still don't understand WTH Diana was doing in the opening part, I mean the man was dying and she was commenting on how weak the human race was.

Apart from Diana's bad characterization I actually enjoyed the issue, a much better start to a run that WW #36.

Diana couldn't have known the extent of his injuries, because she doesn't have x-ray vision like Superman, and see that he was bleeding internally.