Superman Wonder Woman #13 Spoilers/Discussion

[Lokimaru]

I've been giving this issue some serious thought on why it seems off to me. From even before the start of this relationship Superman has always seemed to have a crush on Wonder Woman, look at every panel they are in together, he is just staring at her like he can't believe she's real. He looks at her like people look at him. I imagine that when they kissed He'd go bouncing around like a freaking Loony Toon cause that's how much he was gone for her. This is a Different Superman, he just is. He parents were different, his mom was a soldier not a scientist or laborer in this reality. He has aggression in his DNA. The Kents were different, Pete's different, Lana's different, Everyone is different. Why can't his love be different too? Yes Diana's the Goddess of War now but Ares loved the Goddess of Love, Why can't War embrace Hope now?

[BlackFeath]

Diana will truly need a secret identity if she is going to share a human life with Clark. She will need a real job and real friends so she can remain more than a suspicious enigma to the people in Clark's life. If her secret identity, for example, involves working for the government, acting as a business consultant, or any other profession, she's going to need to have some kind of real connections. Her secret identity can't be flimsy fiction. She's going to have to live it and maintain it, which is a life changing decision to make all in the name of love.

Diana has had a secret identity in the past, but I'm talking about the compromises this Diana will make in this new continuity. It would make me uncomfortable if Diana chose to develop a dual identity purely for the benefit of fitting into her beloved's life.

I don't know, I don't think it will truly be necessary anyway. There are many options they can take for their relationship to work. A private identity for Diana is an option, one that I think she would take out of her love for him, but even then they could come with some story, her working in London and so not being around too much, ecc... They can compromise. And if it's realistic that Clark is away for months without anyone noticing, it is the same for her.

She may not have an ID, or maybe she already has one... after all she lives in London, she has bought a house and I don't think she has done so as Wonder Woman. When she walks on the street she doesn't pretend to be someone else, but people don't know she is Wonder Woman. It wouldn't be that different from this. It would be another role for her.
Love conquers all, right?

[Blacksun]

I've been giving this issue some serious thought on why it seems off to me. From even before the start of this relationship Superman has always seemed to have a crush on Wonder Woman, look at every panel they are in together, he is just staring at her like he can't believe she's real. He looks at her like people look at him. I imagine that when they kissed He'd go bouncing around like a freaking Loony Toon cause that's how much he was gone for her. This is a Different Superman, he just is. He parents were different, his mom was a soldier not a scientist or laborer in this reality. He has aggression in his DNA. The Kents were different, Pete's different, Lana's different, Everyone is different. Why can't his love be different too? Yes Diana's the Goddess of War now but Ares loved the Goddess of Love, Why can't War embrace Hope now?

WW is not like Ares, she is pretty hopeful all by herself she doesn't need superman for it

[Lokimaru]

WW is not like Ares, she is pretty hopeful all by herself she doesn't need superman for it

She's War now. She just is. If you wanna put blinders on to that fact then go ahead but that's what she is now but we see she will become peace because War + Hope = Peace.

[Blacksun]

She's War now. She just is. If you wanna put blinders on to that fact then go ahead but that's what she is now but we see she will become peace because War + Hope = Peace.

WW is already peace on her own. She doesn't need superman to be better person, she is nothing like Ares. She made Ares give up the War mantle because how compassionate she was.

I don't know, I don't think it will truly be necessary anyway. There are many options they can take for their relationship to work. A private identity for Diana is an option, one that I think she would take out of her love for him, but even then they could come with some story, her working in London and so not being around too much, ecc... They can compromise. And if it's realistic that Clark is away for months without anyone noticing, it is the same for her.

She may not have an ID, or maybe she already has one... after all she lives in London, she has bought a house and I don't think she has done so as Wonder Woman. When she walks on the street she doesn't pretend to be someone else, but people don't know she is Wonder Woman. It wouldn't be that different from this. It would be another role for her.
Love conquers all, right?

I don't know, WW is just low profile. She is not the type that will live a full life as diana prince friends (that doesn't know that she is WW), a job. It's not what she is, at least on this reboot. all these complications doesn't belong to her character
i'm not really a fan of WW doing a big change on her life because of superman, I don't think it belongs to the character.

[BlackFeath]

WW is already peace on her own. She doesn't need superman to be better person, she is nothing like Ares. She made Ares give up the War mantle because how compassionate she was.



I don't know, WW is just low profile. She is not the type that will live a full life as diana prince friends (that doesn't know that she is WW), a job. It's not what she is, at least on this reboot. all these complications doesn't belong to her character
i'm not really a fan of WW doing a big change on her life because of superman, I don't think it belongs to the character.

For how I see it 'Diana Prince' would just be another role, one she would take out of love but that wouldn't change who she is. In fact, she would go against herself by not accepting it if she truly loves Clark and wants to stay with him. Of course I expect compromises also from him. Without any compromises there's no relationship which could work.

Screenshot_2014-11-26-23-46-57.jpg

[misslane]

I don't know, I don't think it will truly be necessary anyway. There are many options they can take for their relationship to work. A private identity for Diana is an option, one that I think she would take out of her love for him, but even then they could come with some story, her working in London and so not being around too much, ecc... They can compromise. And if it's realistic that Clark is away for months without anyone noticing, it is the same for her.

If her cover story is that she's working in London, then Diana will need to have an actual job lined up in London so that anyone who is curious can verify the truth of her identity. Clark's identity works because it's real.

She may not have an ID, or maybe she already has one... after all she lives in London, she has bought a house and I don't think she has done so as Wonder Woman. When she walks on the street she doesn't pretend to be someone else, but people don't know she is Wonder Woman. It wouldn't be that different from this. It would be another role for her.

It would be different. Diana already finds the way Clark leads his life to be quite different from how she leads hers. If she has to create a dual identity like his to make the relationship work, then it would be a big ask for Diana.

Love conquers all, right?

Sure, but it doesn't seem fair to ask either one of them to make such huge adjustments to accommodate the way they have chosen to live their lives.

[BlackFeath]

She's War now. She just is. If you wanna put blinders on to that fact then go ahead but that's what she is now but we see she will become peace because War + Hope = Peace.

Mmm, in Azz's run she sees the 'god of war' thing just as role which doesn't define her, though.

If 'Hope' stays for Clark, then I'd say that it is 'Love', not 'War' that stays for Diana, regardless the fact she has taken on the mantle of god of war.
She says so even here in a certain sense:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...29+035-019.jpg

"When given choices...shouldn't we choose love above all else?".

And then there's of course the 'I love everyone' in Hades's arc, after which she made Hades capable of loving himself by shooting him with Eros's guns while he was looking at himself in a mirror.

[BlackFeath]

If her cover story is that she's working in London, then Diana will need to have an actual job lined up in London so that anyone who is curious can verify the truth of her identity. Clark's identity works because it's real.



It would be different. Diana already finds the way Clark leads his life to be quite different from how she leads hers. If she has to create a dual identity like his to make the relationship work, then it would be a big ask for Diana.



Sure, but it doesn't seem fair to ask either one of them to make such huge adjustments to accommodate the way they have chosen to live their lives.

I am not saying it would be easy, but if they love each other of course they could make it work. And they wouldn't ask from each other such a thing, they would do it willingly. That's the meaning of 'love conquers all', isn't it? And Diana has said a similar thing in Wonder Woman 35: "When given choices...shouldn't we choose love above all else?".

[Blacksun]

For how I see it 'Diana Prince' would just be another role, one she would take out of love but that wouldn't change who she is. In fact, she would go against herself by not accepting it if she truly loves Clark and wants to stay with him. Of course I expect compromises also from him. Without any compromises there's no relationship which could work.

Screenshot_2014-11-26-23-46-57.jpg

without compromises there isn't relationships right, it'ts about loyalty, support each other. Not about changing drastically her life. She would have to start lying to people about who she is, take a job, ground on something.
What would be clark sacrifices?
this is a lot like the romances that women have to do huge sacrifices to the man they love

[misslane]

I am not saying it would be easy, but if they love each other of course they could make it work. And they wouldn't ask from each other such a thing, they would do it willingly. That's the meaning of 'love conquers all', isn't it? And Diana has said a similar thing in Wonder Woman 35: "When given choices...shouldn't we choose love above all else?".

I'm just not sure why Diana would have to be the one to make the most significant concessions in the relationship. Why does she always have to choose to compromise her preferred way of living her life to make life easier for the man she loves? What does Clark have to choose for love? It seems lopsided.

[Blind Target]

That's all well and good, but the clash that manifests most often is between Diana and Clark's need to engage in human life as a human. Project into the future. Eventually, Diana will have to either develop a full fledged secret identity of her own, or Clark will have to abandon his. From this issue alone we learn that Diana and Clark have repeatedly conversed, possibly even argued, over his approach to writing and reporting. Sometimes differences like that can be transcended, but sometimes familiarity just breeds contempt. The fact that Diana still nags or makes sour faces when Clark expresses his interest and compassion for humans suggests that it is something that she struggles to tolerate. Also, the perfect dynamic you've described based on Diana being fun, passionate, and heroic as well as truth seeking sums up Lois Lane quite well. Bonus is Lois fits into Clark's human life and gets his reporter instinct.

From this issue, we can see that Clark can get caught up in his work, to the point of neglecting other aspects of his life. It is therefore not surprising that Diana is curious and wants to talk about that aspect of his life, that she doesn't understand, because it seems to consume all other aspects of his life. It shows an interest on her part about something that he apparently loves so much. Even though she may come off like an angry girlfriend to some people, Clark doesn't seem to mind being distracted from doing something he loves, because the important thing is that he loves her and wants to share his life with her. She is someone that can bring much needed balance to his life, and remind him of what's important, and this shows a willingness on his part.

Even Lois, knows that theres a limit to what a person can do. Theres a time and place for everything. Humans need down time in order to recharge there batteries. If humans worked as much as Clark likes to work, they would be physically and emotionally exhausted. Clark can spend the night on his typewriter writing a paper, till the sun rises, and show up to work fresh as anyone else. Physically fine, but emotionally speaking, he is no different than any other human. The more he tries to do, the less efficient he becomes and the less efficient he becomes, the more he tries to do. All this in order to get that same emotional fulfillment he used to get, it's a vicious circle, and it might also explain his writers block.

I'm just not sure why Diana would have to be the one to make the most significant concessions in the relationship. Why does she always have to choose to compromise her preferred way of living her life to make life easier for the man she loves? What does Clark have to choose for love? It seems lopsided.

This sort of thing doesn't just apply to her relationship with Clark, but with pretty much any other man she would be dating. Unless she wants a repeat of Steve Trevor fiasco. Because she comes from a different world, it ultimately comes down as to what she wants to do with her life and with who she wants to plant roots. It's not much of a sacrifice if that's what she really wants.

[Blacksun]

This sort of thing doesn't just apply to her relationship with Clark, but with pretty much any other man she would be dating. Unless she wants a repeat of Steve Trevor fiasco. Because she comes from a different world, it ultimately comes down as to what she wants to do with her life and with who she wants to plant roots. It's not much of a sacrifice if that's what she really wants.

well it was her that break up with steve because he could get hurt, even if that was the job he choose to do. she has her own way of life, live like Clark is a great change for her. She doesn't seem to like "roots", she is pretty much a free spirit. Different from clark that is very grounded on day-to-day human life.

[MeloDet]

well it was her that break up with steve because he could get hurt, even if that was the job he choose to do. she has her own way of life, live like Clark is a great change for her. She doesn't seem to like "roots", she is pretty much a free spirit. Different from clark that is very grounded on day-to-day human life.

They had already broken up before that issue of JL fyi. We don't know what actually caused their breakup, but she was just further distancing herself from Steve by requesting a new liaison in that issue. It's implied in an earlier issue of JL however, that there was some trouble about her failing to say "I love you" back to him when he says it (at least that's what I read it as). Anyway, my point is that you can't say with certainty that she broke up with him because he can get hurt. While it is one way of looking at the scenes in JL, it certainly isn't the only credible interpretation.

As for this issue, while I was still able to enjoy it I did have some of the same issues with characterization that others have mentioned.

[BlackFeath]

I'm just not sure why Diana would have to be the one to make the most significant concessions in the relationship. Why does she always have to choose to compromise her preferred way of living her life to make life easier for the man she loves? What does Clark have to choose for love? It seems lopsided.

Oh, he will have to compromise as well. I expect him to start seeing her point of view as well, of course it shouldn't be just one sided. I think this book has failed to do this so far because we basically have arcs all centered around Superman or his villains.

To see him adjusting to her life, we need to have stories set in her world as well.
If Diana has to understand what it means to him to be human, he has as well to understand what it means to her, so far he hasn't. And he has to understand also her other roles, that of god of war and of queen. One thing I think he should never ask to her is when she is Diana Prince to change her behaviour, her personality, that I don't think she would accept.

And anyway it's not like she has to have a full time job if she doesn't want one, and probably with all her roles she would not even have the time for that, nor she will have necessary to settle down in Metropolis. With Bruce and Cyborg's help they can make her identity credible anyway. And there are not only human resources at their disposition. To make her not recognizable even without her putting as much effort as Clark they can use other tools, what about some magical artifacts from Hephaestus? And I imagine also Clark can have some kryptonian artifact which could help.

Plus, for them distance is nothing, and since their relationship is out, they can stay together also as Superman and Wonder Woman. I think it is wrong to think that their relationship has necessarily to be a traditional and normal one. They have different options like I have said. To accept this would be Clark's compromise.

Diana Prince's ID can be fake, they can make it up so that Diana can stay with him when he is Clark Kent and he doesn't have to give up on his secret identity, but at the same time theirs wouldn't be a traditional relationship, she would have her freedom, she wouldn't be trapped in that identity, and Clark would have to accept that.