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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    I think there's a difference between understanding something and accepting it. In particular, accepting it with grace. Wonder Woman's whining about something that is a known, and understood, part of the man she has said she loves suggests that she finds that part of him difficult to accept and thus something worthy of her constant resentment and scorn.
    She said she doesn't understand his point of view on everything because she was raised differently, but all the same it makes her happy to see him happy.

    What about that shows resentment, scorn or an unwillingness to accept?
    Last edited by Lax; 11-19-2014 at 10:09 PM.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    What about that shows resentment, scorn or an unwillingness to accept?
    In general, the whole issue presents Diana as someone who is not entirely comfortable with how much her boyfriend attends to the needs of the weak. Despite knowing Clark for a significant amount of time, Diana still seems to find so much of who he is and what he does as curious and worth questioning. The fact that Clark mentions explaining his writing process to Diana numerous times before this particular date night, for example, suggests Diana is continues to struggle with fundamental aspects of Clark's personality and behavior. Diana herself even says that she can't pretend she understands him, which is obvious since even after he explains how his writing was honoring the lives that were lost, Diana still insists that Clark is dwelling on death. Before finally heading out on their date, Diana claims she's happy if he's happy, yet when Clark is clearly happy to help some folks find much needed taxis in the rain, Diana doesn't seem so happy. In other words, there's a clash between what Diana says and how she behaves.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post

    Mahnke is one of my favorites. No complaints. His Atomic Skull made the issue, and the Major Disaster weather effects were great, too.
    Yeah this definitely deserves attention. Everything about these two were great, despite being B-listers. Especially Atomic Skull. Visually a delight to see on-page. I find myself hoping his status gets upped to just see more of him drawn.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    She said she doesn't understand his point of view on everything because she was raised differently, but all the same it makes her happy to see him happy.

    What about that shows resentment, scorn or an unwillingness to accept?
    Everything about her face and body language.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    "We just dont stand by and let people die"

    Wow, I love this Superman. This is what I would have loved from the start of the reboot. A Superman whos in charge and knows what hes doing and IS the team leader instead of some impulsive jerk with one liners. Or beta male angsty superboy wanna-be.

    Doug draws a fantastic Superman, best. Always has been one of my favorites since he worked with Morrison.

    The passion here and story reminds me of Bronze Age Superman. Where Superman is Superman for the people, yet still has a personal life and his Clark isnt ignored. And theres little blurbs on his personal insights (Such as the type writer). This Wonderstar guy is hilarious in my opinion and seems like an awesomely funny interesting character.


    I dont follow Wonder Woman so I can see how some people might be upset. She reminds me of this girlfriend I had who had anger problems, if I wasnt who I was she would be out of control. Takes a real man to handle her.
    And this is supposed to be Wonder Woman.

    I think I just threw up in my mouth.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Absolutely in no book by any writer has it ever even remotely been insinuated that she has any desire whatsoever to set herself and Superman as rulers of DC's pantheon of gods. Where did you pull that out of?
    1. WW is only attracted to Superman because of his powers. His compassion and connection to humanity, the things that make him Superman, are not appealing to her and she doesn't understand them.
    2. She broke up with Steve and was cold to him because of his lack of powers, he wasn't good enough for her
    3. WW does not follow the same path as Superman.

    This whole relationship has done nothing for Superman. Wonder Woman brings nothing very substantial to the table, except she has powers and DC could make the a "power couple." Its not helped by the fact that every writer completely redoes Wonder Woman, she has very little consistency. The franchise does not need to be burdened by something like that.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandor Rising View Post
    1. WW is only attracted to Superman because of his powers. His compassion and connection to humanity, the things that make him Superman, are not appealing to her and she doesn't understand them.
    2. She broke up with Steve and was cold to him because of his lack of powers, he wasn't good enough for her
    3. WW does not follow the same path as Superman.

    This whole relationship has done nothing for Superman. Wonder Woman brings nothing very substantial to the table, except she has powers and DC could make the a "power couple." Its not helped by the fact that every writer completely redoes Wonder Woman, she has very little consistency. The franchise does not need to be burdened by something like that.
    While I get some people don't like the couple... this is nonsensical.

    Wonder Woman fyi would not need to get together with Superman to rule the world. She can do it herself if she really wanted to. And since no writer has ever showed her wanting to even do that... (Azzarello's WW could have hooked up with any Gods be it Hades, Apollo, First Born if she was so power hungry as you claim)...your assessment is way off.

    Because Injustice makes Clark a weak willed bully willing to forget his principles and trying to place the blame on the "woman" let's not think that rubbish writing for a game that is motivated by heroes beating each other up even applies to the Superman and the Wonder Woman in the new 52.
    Last edited by hellacre; 11-20-2014 at 05:20 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandor Rising View Post
    Its showing that WW isn't good enough to be with Superman. She wants him to not have a human side. She comes from a society that worships the Greek Gods, and she wants to set herself and him as the rulers of a new pantheon. WW does not even take on a human guise like Zeus.
    That's some mighty fine reaching you got there. I don't like how Diana was written here either, but come on. BTW, Zeus took human guises for the purpose of seducing mortal women.

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    In general, the whole issue presents Diana as someone who is not entirely comfortable with how much her boyfriend attends to the needs of the weak. Despite knowing Clark for a significant amount of time, Diana still seems to find so much of who he is and what he does as curious and worth questioning. The fact that Clark mentions explaining his writing process to Diana numerous times before this particular date night, for example, suggests Diana is continues to struggle with fundamental aspects of Clark's personality and behavior. Diana herself even says that she can't pretend she understands him, which is obvious since even after he explains how his writing was honoring the lives that were lost, Diana still insists that Clark is dwelling on death. Before finally heading out on their date, Diana claims she's happy if he's happy, yet when Clark is clearly happy to help some folks find much needed taxis in the rain, Diana doesn't seem so happy. In other words, there's a clash between what Diana says and how she behaves.
    I honestly don't see such a clash. Reading this issue, I don't see any indication that this is a significant point of contention. When I read this issue, I see a story that focuses on some of the core differences between two character. And there's noting wrong with that. No matter how much two people love each other, they're going to have differences. They're going to have disagreements. We've seen, going all the way back to the first few issues of Justice League, that Clark and Diana have a different approach when it comes to being a hero. Clark is more reserved in that he tries to hold back. He has to because his power is just that great. Diana is more inclined to push harder and move forward. That's what makes her such a strong woman and a powerful warrior. And in the end, she does manage to get Clark to pull himself away from his writing so they could go on their date. It's not like he was overly stubborn about it. This is really pretty consistent how ordinary couples act. These two just happen to have god-like powers. And I think that's part of what makes the pairing so compelling. They're so powerful, but at the same time they're so human.

    I think the theme of this first issue was to establish some of the key differences between Clark and Diana. By focusing on these differences, it puts them in a position to learn from one another. That's key in any relationship. Differences don't have to tear each other apart. They can also help a relationship grow. It's not clear which direction Tomsai will take right now, but I think he's established a good foundation for his run.
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  10. #55
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Well now that the dust has settled and I've been able to read the issue I can honestly say that without a doubt I actually enjoyed myself. At most any problems I my have are nitpicks. I really think the some people on here blew what I thought were funny on insentient parts in the book out of proportion. I really enjoyed both Superman and Wonder Woman in this issue after the flashback.

    I really thought the back and forth was pretty funny. As a Superman fan I really than the writer for showing off that heart of gold that I think makes him who he is. I really enjoyed how it was even played for comedic effect with the four cabs, "ten minutes and hour ago" regarding the story he was writing. Now my only thing is can the writer bring the evils worst nightmare tough guy aspect of the character in too while he's in a fight. Regardless of what people think the two are not mutually exclusive.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandor Rising View Post
    1. WW is only attracted to Superman because of his powers. His compassion and connection to humanity, the things that make him Superman, are not appealing to her and she doesn't understand them.
    2. She broke up with Steve and was cold to him because of his lack of powers, he wasn't good enough for her
    3. WW does not follow the same path as Superman.
    Again, nothing written anywhere at any time substantiates any of those points. So my question of where you're getting all this remains because its not from any published DC book.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Well now that the dust has settled and I've been able to read the issue I can honestly say that without a doubt I actually enjoyed myself. At most any problems I my have are nitpicks. I really think the some people on here blew what I thought were funny on insentient parts in the book out of proportion. I really enjoyed both Superman and Wonder Woman in this issue after the flashback.

    I really thought the back and forth was pretty funny. As a Superman fan I really than the writer for showing off that heart of gold that I think makes him who he is. I really enjoyed how it was even played for comedic effect with the four cabs, "ten minutes and hour ago" regarding the story he was writing. Now my only thing is can the writer bring the evils worst nightmare tough guy aspect of the character in too while he's in a fight. Regardless of what people think the two are not mutually exclusive.
    Pretty much agreed with this review, with the big exception that the funny parts were flat IMO. And it's not even as though I dislike funny; my favorite aspect of #12 was that I thought it was good for laughs.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I honestly don't see such a clash. Reading this issue, I don't see any indication that this is a significant point of contention. When I read this issue, I see a story that focuses on some of the core differences between two character. And there's noting wrong with that.
    How can a story that focuses on a core difference between the two characters not indicate there is a significant point of contention? Usually, when a difference is just a difference rather than a source of conflict, it is presented as not causing conflict. This issue definitely suggested that one of the couple's core differences repeatedly caused tension in the relationship.

    No matter how much two people love each other, they're going to have differences. They're going to have disagreements. We've seen, going all the way back to the first few issues of Justice League, that Clark and Diana have a different approach when it comes to being a hero. Clark is more reserved in that he tries to hold back. He has to because his power is just that great. Diana is more inclined to push harder and move forward. That's what makes her such a strong woman and a powerful warrior. And in the end, she does manage to get Clark to pull himself away from his writing so they could go on their date. It's not like he was overly stubborn about it. This is really pretty consistent how ordinary couples act. These two just happen to have god-like powers. And I think that's part of what makes the pairing so compelling. They're so powerful, but at the same time they're so human.
    I don't find this sort of conflict even remotely compelling, especially the way it was handled in this issue. It feels harsh and contrived rather than compelling and organic. Over and over again, Superman and Wonder Woman stories use this particular conflict to create drama. Diana's strategic, controlled warrior nature is consistently contrasted with Clark's more compassionate, emotional alien/human nature. It's become so consistent a theme that it now reads as a fundamental clash of personalities rather than complementary differences that add texture to the relationship. Neither of them seems to care to adapt or accept their partner's needs and preferences without significant pressure or argument. At this point in their relationship, if I'm to believe they understand and accept each other's differences and flaws, I'd expect them to be able to handle disagreements that stem from their core differences with more self-awareness and grace.

    I think the theme of this first issue was to establish some of the key differences between Clark and Diana. By focusing on these differences, it puts them in a position to learn from one another. That's key in any relationship. Differences don't have to tear each other apart. They can also help a relationship grow. It's not clear which direction Tomsai will take right now, but I think he's established a good foundation for his run.
    I disagree. I found the way the issue established the key differences to be tone deaf and inorganic.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandor Rising View Post
    1. WW is only attracted to Superman because of his powers. His compassion and connection to humanity, the things that make him Superman, are not appealing to her and she doesn't understand them.
    2. She broke up with Steve and was cold to him because of his lack of powers, he wasn't good enough for her
    3. WW does not follow the same path as Superman.

    This whole relationship has done nothing for Superman. Wonder Woman brings nothing very substantial to the table, except she has powers and DC could make the a "power couple." Its not helped by the fact that every writer completely redoes Wonder Woman, she has very little consistency. The franchise does not need to be burdened by something like that.
    you have some points, you exagerated a bit. but some are pretty obvious like her dating superman because he has powers and disregard to humans because they are weaklings. there's some god aspect of this WW that I don't like

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    you have some points, you exagerated a bit. but some are pretty obvious like her dating superman because he has powers and disregard to humans because they are weaklings. there's some god aspect of this WW that I don't like
    It turns her into a super power gold digger.

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