Superman Wonder Woman #13 Spoilers/Discussion

[misslane]

I think you've made it clear you're not going to be convinced of anything I say or anything I argue. So I'm not going to argue with you. If you don't like the way Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship is being portrayed here, then I think it's best you not read the book.

I cannot critique what I do not read.

[Lax]

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of Clark's struggling to find the right words to tell his story. His writer's block does not negate his desire and commitment to honor someone's life. Free time is not something Clark and Diana have in great abundance, but both of them in the past have agreed that they never want their relationship to interfere with their respective responsibilities to the world.

The relevance is time. He said the task would be competed in 10 minutes and after an hour he was still struggling mightily. This indicates that he wasn't going to be done anytime soon. They didn't want their relationship interfering with their duties in the context of saving people. These people can't be saved because they're already dead.

It's not as if Wonder Woman randomly sprung this on him. He agreed to the date, got dressed up for it, and he offered her a timeline taking his task into consideration. Superman isn't the only one with things to do.

By labeling it "responsibilities to the world" you're trying to paint the relationship as selfish, but by that logic any relationship they have is selfish as it would eat up time they could otherwise spend helping random strangers.

But Diana knows that her boyfriend is the kind of man who will put his life and needs on hold to help others. The argument was that Diana understands and accepts Clark, but his actions in this issue were all rooted in who he is at his core. If Diana understands and accepts Clark, then it doesn't make any sense to get angry or frustrated at him for being himself.

I'm sure it's one of the traits she likes about the guy, but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as overkill. Her accepting that Superman desires to help people doesn't mean that she has no right to be frustrated when that trait is taken to the extreme.

Superman makes time for life as Clark Kent, he makes time for friends and he makes time for a full time job all while somebody somewhere is in serious trouble. Don't tell me Wonder Woman expecting Superman to make time for her is out of bounds even after he agreed to do so.

The "needs" of the woman he loves are insignificant and selfish in comparison to the needs of the people Clark was helping through his writing and his helping people get taxis. The people in this particular instance were having difficulty getting taxis in the rain, and Clark was making it easier for them. Clark and Diana do not need taxis.

Her needs are neither insignificant nor selfish because they do not exist for the sole purpose of serving humans. That is emotional blackmail which ultimately becomes a form of oppression. "Hey Supes, what are you doing eating that cheeseburger? That kryptonian body of yours doesn't require food and right now there's a child in France about to get run over by a truck. Is pleasuring your little taste buds really more important than saving someone's life? That's incredibly selfish of you."

Superman set aside this time for Wonder Woman as she did for him. This would require a lot of schedule juggling and it's inconsiderate to do that then tell his girlfriend to wait for a timeline he doesn't stick too while she holds up her end of the deal.

Your right, Superman and Wonder Woman didn't need taxis but Superman wanted them to walk anyway. Then after she adhered to his request he gave away four of their taxis in the rain and showed no signs of stopping if Wondy had not intervened.

[hellacre]

I don't like the idea, but it's better than him being Magog.

Hope it's not Gog either. Gog was a guy called William who was obsessed with Superman to the point of worshiping him. Was granted powers by the Quintessence and went mad.

[hellacre]

Mahnke can't help it. He rushes through it. Even the head proportions are sometimes off. But as long as we are left with Mendoza inking those quirks are easily overlooked most of the time.

The black joker lips that pop up at times...they need to go. Is that Mendoza? They ruin what could be a really nice pic, like with Clark and Diana both flying in the air in their civvies.

But the art team killed it in the action and the sequences with Atomic Skull and Major Disaster. Those baddies looked really good.

[misslane]

By labeling it "responsibilities to the world" you're trying to paint the relationship as selfish, but by that logic any relationship they have is selfish as it would eat up time they could otherwise spend helping random strangers.

At no point did I imply their relationship was selfish. I am merely clarifying that, for Clark, "responsibilities to the world" also includes telling the stories of others. Furthermore, since Clark enjoys writing, especially about a topic like this one, it is also a selfish act. The conflict lies not between that which is selfless versus that which is selfish, but moreso in how both characters define for themselves what those two words mean to them. Writing about random strangers makes Clark happy.

I'm sure it's one of the traits she likes about the guy, but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as overkill. Her accepting that Superman desires to help people doesn't mean that she has no right to be frustrated when that trait is taken to the extreme.

It does when Clark taking it to the extreme is an innate part of the man she loves. If Diana doesn't like that Clark is overly compassionate, then perhaps she is with the wrong man.

Superman makes time for life as Clark Kent, he makes time for friends and he makes time for a full time job all while somebody somewhere is in serious trouble. Don't tell me Wonder Woman expecting Superman to make time for her is out of bounds even after he agreed to do so.

I don't think Clark is expecting anything other than his girlfriend's unconditional love for him regardless of his positive and negative traits. I don't think Clark demands anyone be with him, including Diana, if he cannot satisfy her equally legitimate needs and desires. I'd imagine if that were the case, Clark would simply accept that their personalities were romantically incompatible.

Her needs are neither insignificant nor selfish because they do not exist for the sole purpose of serving humans. That is emotional blackmail which ultimately becomes a form of oppression. "Hey Supes, what are you doing eating that cheeseburger? That kryptonian body of yours doesn't require food and right now there's a child in France about to get run over by a truck. Is pleasuring your little taste buds really more important than saving someone's life? That's incredibly selfish of you."

Your straw man does not support your position. I am not dealing with hyperbolic hypotheticals, but rather the real traits Clark exhibited in this issue. As I mentioned before, Clark's desire to write and to help people get taxis makes him happy. They were both selfless acts that selfishly made him feel good. Clark, as we know, also likes to selfishly indulge in eating food like cheeseburgers because it is also an unnecessary thing to do that makes him happy.

Superman set aside this time for Wonder Woman as she did for him. This would require a lot of schedule juggling and it's inconsiderate to do that then tell his girlfriend to wait for a timeline he doesn't stick too while she holds up her end of the deal.

Yes, they both set aside time, but as they are both well aware, sometimes other things get in the way. I'm kind of shocked it took Diana an hour to ask Clark what he was doing. After ten minutes, I would have imagined a thoughtful girlfriend would have asked what her boyfriend was doing and why it was taking him longer than expected. Had she intervened sooner, maybe she could have helped him before it was far too late. It was inconsiderate for Clark to make Diana wait, but since it makes Clark happy to write, particularly to serve others, then it is part of the Clark Kent package that Diana claimed to love. She either accepts this side of the man she loves or she doesn't.

Your right, Superman and Wonder Woman didn't need taxis but Superman wanted them to walk anyway. Then after she adhered to his request he gave away four of their taxis in the rain and showed no signs of stopping if Wondy had not intervened.

Good for him. I'm glad at least one of them was being considerate.

[Starchild]

Did Atomic Skull and Major Disaster look stunning in this issue or what? Wow

[jorge17881]

Wonder Star

[Heasensy32]

I don't see why people are complaining, this is a new iteration of Superman and Wonder Woman. They are not your dad and mom's Superman and wonder woman.

[Blind Target]

I don't think Clark is expecting anything other than his girlfriend's unconditional love for him regardless of his positive and negative traits. I don't think Clark demands anyone be with him, including Diana, if he cannot satisfy her equally legitimate needs and desires. I'd imagine if that were the case, Clark would simply accept that their personalities were romantically incompatible.

Workaholics don't have a personal life because their job is their personal life. They tend to neglect their relationships and families, because nothing satisfies their emotional needs like their jobs, and they take their jobs everywhere, because it's like an addiction, even if that addiction is helping others. Because of this, I don't think Clark was aware, how inconsiderate he was with Diana.

Clark cannot satisfy the emotional needs and desires of Diana, or anyone else for that matter, if he doesn't take them into consideration. As selfless as he was, he was even more selfish, because he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted to spend time with Diana, but he didn't give her any of his time because he was busy helping others, and the way he was helping others, was an inefficient use of his time and powers. There are better things he could be doing with his time and powers, than getting other people taxis. Those people didn't actually need his help in getting taxis, they could get it themselves, even if he wasn't there, theres plenty of taxis to go around, but he was going to spend the rest of the night getting taxis for other people, because he is not very good at being selfish. On one hand his relationship with Diana suffers, and on the other, his help was unnecessary. It's not like they needed to stay there soaking up the rain. If they were going to get wet anyways, they might as well just fly. But oh no!!!, Clark needed to get high on his addiction to helping others.

I would imagine, that once Clark becomes aware of how his behavior negatively affects the relationship, he is going to have to ask himself, what kind of relationship he wants to have with her?, a super friend with benefit, or an actually committed relationship. Unconditional love cannot sustain any relationship, being in a committed relationship requires work, work that he isn't putting in it, because he is too busy putting all the work outside of it. He is not alone anymore, he is in a relationship with someone and that requires adjustments, balance and boundaries in his life. I think they also call that character growth.

Good for him. I'm glad at least one of them was being considerate.

If only he was, instead of self indulgent.

[hellacre]

Wonder Star

The costume looks like parts of Magog's before he lost bits of it in Kingdom Come. So a young Magog?




Eh, really didn't want Wonderstar to be Magog.Hopefully he isn't. But looking at the costumes or maybe Marvelmaster is right...he's a character from the future just into Superman and Wonder Woman.

[hellacre]

One of my favorite panels of the issue. Not even the most detailed but really good conveying the moment and Clark's expression.



Another image I think could have been perfect but for Clark's weird lips.





Mahnke did Clark in Trinity War really well, not sure why we getting those weird black joker lips at times. Even Wonderstar has it too.

[Prime]

Wonder Star

I think he might have something to do with Magog, but I don't think he is Magog.

[jorge17881]

superman and wonder woman.jpg
Superman/Wonder Woman #14 -Synopsis...It’s no surprise that after recent events, Superman and Wonder Woman are cautious about the appearance of the new hero who calls himself Wonderstar. But this mysterious hero seems to be asking for nothing more than their guidance in dealing with his strange, erratic powers – and for their help in protecting his loved ones and his secret identity! The only problem is that his past is a blank slate. He doesn’t know who he is, where he comes from – or why is feels a strange connection to the Man of Steel and the Amazon Warrior!

Superman/Wonder Woman #15 -Synopsis...Wonderstar’s destiny is starting to become clear – and his path may lead to the end of humanity! Will Superman and Wonder Woman be able to prevent him from becoming what – or who – he’s meant to be?

Superman/Wonder Woman #16 -Synopsis... Superman and Wonder Woman come face-to-face with the newest arrival to The New 52: MAGOG!

ugh... anyway

[Sacred Knight]

I'm still highly doubting Wonderstar is a young Magog. They'll be two different characters. I do have a feeling they'll both be time travelers from the same future though.

[Prime]

I'm still highly doubting Wonderstar is a young Magog. They'll be two different characters. I do have a feeling they'll both be time travelers from the same future though.

Let us hope. Whatever it is, he does have a connection to Magog.