New Avengers 26 *spoilers*

[dzub]

another character-centric issue..
this week stark, next week strange?

[jackolover]

My take is that the extinction threat is real, it's only that she is lying about being a 'Black Swan'. The Black Priests did destroy her home, but she is just a 'normal' person from there and not a harbinger Black Swan or whatever. Also, she wants to marry Tony because of his face and because he is the best choice from dwindling options.

But we saw her blow up a planet in the first issue of New Avengers. How can she turn around now and say she is just a normal human when she is a telepath and you can't believe one word she says?

It wouldn't be the first time she manipulated someone. She could very easily be giving Tony the reaction he was looking for. Why so quick to believe her emotional reactions are genuine when they're so completely out of character?

[TakoM]

Yeah, he was just getting at her and it worked especially when he revealed what they learned about her. Although Black Swan does have something in mind for him if she had kept trying to get him to join them.

Wonder why Tony and the rest of the Illuminati split. Perhaps it was about how to handle the Cabal?

Sound for me that Black Swan had something for him because she liked his alpha male behaviour but than he got to far and crawled under her skin with out her permission.
Simply saying that he loves her would been a much better option in this situation than this even if it is a lie.

[TakoM]

She's trying to regrow/replace her family, by some sort of genetic manipulation. It wasn't very clear.

So far I heard she has all she needs to make perfect clones. Its basically on the level of some sort of resurrection.

Can a perfect clone be called a resurrection ? This a huge philosophical discussion.
It start with can you differentiate between clone and original ? Is there a difference between them ? If not is this a form of rebirth?

[vitruvian]

So far I heard she has all she needs to make perfect clones. Its basically on the level of some sort of resurrection.

Can a perfect clone be called a resurrection ? This a huge philosophical discussion.
It start with can you differentiate between clone and original ? Is there a difference between them ? If not is this a form of rebirth?

If a perfect clone with the memories of the original is not rebirth, then the real Red Skull's been dead a while... I think the issue is not so much her ability to bring her family back in technical terms, or considering them really her family, but rather finding a world that she thinks stands a chance of surviving long enough for there to be a point to it.

[celeherald]

Can you spoil Black Swan true intentions and why do you say that the beginning of Battleworld is formed? :S Please?

The Incursion sites are lingering after planetary destruction. Swan wants to revive her family.

[TakoM]

Gees, I'm starting to realize how much of a mess and how dated this comic is going to be for future readers who aren't reading any of the events currently when they get to this part of the comic (just like Morrison's JLA, but with more characterization).

Could it be that Hickman starts to add stuff from other authors and write it more dynamic instead of those monorail plots with sugar?

[hawkeyefan]

Could it be that Hickman starts to add stuff from other authors and write it more dynamic instead of those monorail plots with sugar?

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Readers say they want the books to acknowledge each other, then complain when they do so.

I think the "need to know" mindset has really changed from when I first got into comics. When I was a kid, you just accepted that there were older stories or other books that had an impact on things, and you may not be able to read those other stories. There was no internet to research info or discuss with other readers, so you just accepted it. At best there was an editor's note with a * "see Captain America 299 to find out why Cap's so old now". Which didn't actually explain anything, it just pointed to where you could find out if you wanted to spend more money. So usually you just accepted it and moved on.

These days, people want to know everything NOW. And they seem to think they actually need to know it all to understand the story.

But it doesn't even really matter that much. Hickman's story acknowledges the changes, but does nothing to explain them or elaborate on them. And that's fine. The info is easily available for those that want it. I don't follow Thor's or Cap's books, but simply being on these boards I know enough about what's happened to them to simply accept it and then enjoy Hickman's story on its own merit.

[XPac]

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Readers say they want the books to acknowledge each other, then complain when they do so.

I think the "need to know" mindset has really changed from when I first got into comics. When I was a kid, you just accepted that there were older stories or other books that had an impact on things, and you may not be able to read those other stories. There was no internet to research info or discuss with other readers, so you just accepted it. At best there was an editor's note with a * "see Captain America 299 to find out why Cap's so old now". Which didn't actually explain anything, it just pointed to where you could find out if you wanted to spend more money. So usually you just accepted it and moved on.

These days, people want to know everything NOW. And they seem to think they actually need to know it all to understand the story.

But it doesn't even really matter that much. Hickman's story acknowledges the changes, but does nothing to explain them or elaborate on them. And that's fine. The info is easily available for those that want it. I don't follow Thor's or Cap's books, but simply being on these boards I know enough about what's happened to them to simply accept it and then enjoy Hickman's story on its own merit.

Yeah, that's the nice thing about the internet. You don't need to actually buy other books to understand what's going on, or even Byrne steal them. It's all out there if you need it.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that a writer should assume they can Google the info and not bother giving readers the minimum of what they need, but it's nice that the net is out there as a safety net for when writers maybe don't do as good a job as they should.

I imagine anyone not reading Axis is going to find Mighty Avengers pretty confusing for example. Sometimes certain gaps do need to be filled.

[hawkeyefan]

Yeah, that's the nice thing about the internet. You don't need to actually buy other books to understand what's going on, or even Byrne steal them. It's all out there if you need it.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that a writer should assume they can Google the info and not bother giving readers the minimum of what they need, but it's nice that the net is out there as a safety net for when writers maybe don't do as good a job as they should.

I imagine anyone not reading Axis is going to find Mighty Avengers pretty confusing for example. Sometimes certain gaps do need to be filled.

There are definitely times when some explanation is necessary. I stopped reading Axis and don't read Mighty, but I can imagine when things are closely tied like that, you may need additional exposition about it.

For Hickman's story, I don't feel like I really need anything more than what's obvious. Thor lost his hammer and thinks of himself as unworthy....that's all I need to know, and that's pretty clear in the writing. He's obviously looking for either redemption or a glorious death in search of redemption. It's clear to me.

For Cap, I don't follow the solo, so all I know is it had something to do with some guy called the Iron Nail. But it's happened before, actually, and I know Cap is chronologically old as dirt, so I'm good. I think his age seems to have only heightened his anger and righteousness, so that works for me.

With Stark, I could just as easily attribute his rantings to his imprisonment and everything else that's happened. No need at all to go into the Inversion thing at this point. That will likely change, but I'm sure we'll get enough to go on.

It reminds me of Civil War in a way....the Daredevil at the time of that story was actually Iron Fist dressed up as Daredevil. If you knew, the story worked fine, if you didn't know, the story worked fine. That isn't always the case, but when it can be pulled off, I think that's the best approach.

I don't feel the need to read any other books than these, and to me, that's the biggest factor.

[Username taken]

There are definitely times when some explanation is necessary. I stopped reading Axis and don't read Mighty, but I can imagine when things are closely tied like that, you may need additional exposition about it.

For Hickman's story, I don't feel like I really need anything more than what's obvious. Thor lost his hammer and thinks of himself as unworthy....that's all I need to know, and that's pretty clear in the writing. He's obviously looking for either redemption or a glorious death in search of redemption. It's clear to me.

For Cap, I don't follow the solo, so all I know is it had something to do with some guy called the Iron Nail. But it's happened before, actually, and I know Cap is chronologically old as dirt, so I'm good. I think his age seems to have only heightened his anger and righteousness, so that works for me.

With Stark, I could just as easily attribute his rantings to his imprisonment and everything else that's happened. No need at all to go into the Inversion thing at this point. That will likely change, but I'm sure we'll get enough to go on.

It reminds me of Civil War in a way....the Daredevil at the time of that story was actually Iron Fist dressed up as Daredevil. If you knew, the story worked fine, if you didn't know, the story worked fine. That isn't always the case, but when it can be pulled off, I think that's the best approach.

I don't feel the need to read any other books than these, and to me, that's the biggest factor.

Agreed.

The funny thing is the recap page (which frankly most of us don't read anymore) actually clarifies some of these things. Granted, the reader has every right to know exactly why said character is the way he/she is but for me, it doesn't add or take away from the stories I'm reading.

Continuity is important but I don't need all the timelines of the various titles to line up. With the nature of story telling today, it's not going to be possible anymore.

[Mahes]

There are definitely times when some explanation is necessary. I stopped reading Axis and don't read Mighty, but I can imagine when things are closely tied like that, you may need additional exposition about it.

For Hickman's story, I don't feel like I really need anything more than what's obvious. Thor lost his hammer and thinks of himself as unworthy....that's all I need to know, and that's pretty clear in the writing. He's obviously looking for either redemption or a glorious death in search of redemption. It's clear to me.

Yeah for the most part if you only read Hickman's titles then you are set for understanding what's going on. The only issues would be why Thor can't use his hammer, the why and how of X-Nation, Cap being old, and other things like that. It's somewhat self contained.

[hawkeyefan]

Yeah for the most part if you only read Hickman's titles then you are set for understanding what's going on. The only issues would be why Thor can't use his hammer, the why and how of X-Nation, Cap being old, and other things like that. It's somewhat self contained.

Well the X-Nation thing hasn't happened yet, I don't think, but yeah, as much as it uses the characters as they are in their own books, it is self contained. As much as I may not understand exactly what happened to Thor or Steve, I'm also aware that it happened in their own books, and the why of it isn't integral to Hickman's story.

I don't read the X-books these days, except the occasional thumb through at the shop, but I will say the few pages of Cyclops in this issue was the best I've seen from the character since Whedon. As I said, that's admittedly not a ton of stories....I really find militant Cyke to be awful, and I think it's because writers who followed Whedon misinterpreted what he did with the character....but this little glimpse made me not hate the character anymore.

Probably more a by-product of Hickman's characterization, though.

[Mr MajestiK]

Natasha and Jessica were pretty awesome with their infiltration ! Maybe with them, T'Challa's own attempt would have had a different outcome.

Which is kind of ironic when one takes into consideration the fact that T'Challa himself is supposed to be an Apex master strategist/stealth warrior from one of the most technologically advanced nations in the 616 MU.

It's like Hickman showcases other characters uber-qualities whilst reducing T'Challa (and the rest of the Illuminati) to the level of a innefectual tactical moron totally bereft of the signature characteristics that have been part of his repetoire right from the characters very inception. :smh:

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Which is kind of ironic when one takes into consideration the fact that T'Challa himself is supposed to be an Apex master strategist/stealth warrior from one of the most technologically advanced nations in the 616 MU.

It's like Hickman showcases other characters uber-qualities whilst reducing T'Challa (and the rest of the Illuminati) to the level of a innefectual tactical moron totally bereft of the signature characteristics that have been part of his repetoire right from the characters very inception. :smh:

While I get where you're coming from, The Cabal knew that they were coming and were waiting. Apparently someone sold them out.