Is Superman broken beyond repair?

[Flash Gordon]

I am totally baffled by your not enjoying the last issue of Action. Our tastes normally run really similar and I enjoyed it. A horror story while Superman considers whether the world needs him to be a symbol anymore certainly wasnt the story I had wanted to read, but once I realized that Clark's not wallowing in self-pity so much as considering a new career path with a lower profile I enjoyed the hell out of it.

I'll give it another read through since you liked it so much, must be something good in it.

I suppose I'm just sick of the "do I really need to be a symbol?" "Does the world really need a superman?" Kind of stories. Hell yes we do now get back to work, Clark!

[The Beast]

and that's it. DC had it. they had the "blue sky pitch" with morrison's first six issues or so of action. but instead of taking that distinctiveness and running with it, they are slowly letting it get watered down.

Agreed. Nearly everyone else has a completely opposite narrative style to Morrison, where Superman displays a lack of conviction through internal dialogue rather than letting his actions speak for themselves. Superman doesn't enjoy his gifts and fight his never ending battle with purpose and determination. Unlike Batman, self-doubt plagues Superman as he strives to "be normal" in an effort to pander to the audience.

Superman needs more arcs like Unchained, John’s/Romita’s Men of Tomorrow and Man of Steel to become viable escapist fantasy again. Until he becomes the man of action that he was created to be, embracing his purpose in life and enjoying his own powers and abilities rather than being paranoid that some form of corruption is inevitable if he doesn't try to be mundane, Superman will remain broken in the minds of everyone outside of the niche market.

[Ascended]

I'll give it another read through since you liked it so much, must be something good in it.

I suppose I'm just sick of the "do I really need to be a symbol?" "Does the world really need a superman?" Kind of stories. Hell yes we do now get back to work, Clark!

Oh trust me, Im tired of it too. Given a choice I'd rather Pak write something (almost anything) else. However, this seems to me less about Clark wondering about his role in life and having a identity crisis, and more about politics. The world is not a big fan of Superman right now, between the events of Doomed, Dr. Light's "murder" and whatever other things I might be forgetting.

Thats why he's laying low; if the world has a mad-on for Superman right now, and everyone is putting everything back together just fine anyway, maybe Superman keeping a low profile (for now) is what people need.

Its the smile. You look at Clark in the last issue, and he's smiling. He's smiling in Supergirl (despite having an argument with Kara). He's tired and worn out sure; but in almost every other "Do I need to be Superman?" story hes never smiling, he's mopey and depressed and all "woe is me!". Clark isnt depressed here; he's just trying to decide how best to aid humanity.

Anyway, maybe you'll give it another read-through and still not like it. And if so, more power to you. Its just odd, since we normally agree on most things Superman.

[Ascended]

Agreed. Nearly everyone else has a completely opposite narrative style to Morrison, where Superman displays a lack of conviction through internal dialogue rather than letting his actions speak for themselves. Superman doesn't enjoy his gifts and fight his never ending battle with purpose and determination. Unlike Batman, self-doubt plagues Superman as he strives to "be normal" in an effort to pander to the audience.

Superman needs more arcs like Unchained, John’s/Romita’s Men of Tomorrow and Man of Steel to become viable escapist fantasy again. Until he becomes the man of action that he was created to be, embracing his purpose in life and enjoying his own powers and abilities rather than being paranoid that some form of corruption is inevitable if he doesn't try to be mundane, Superman will remain broken in the minds of everyone outside of the niche market.

Once again, the collapse of post-Crisis proves your opinion does not reflect the reality.

I completely agree that he needs to be the man of action, full of conviction and purpose and at ease with what and who he is and happy to leave all things mundane to others. And these are the exact elements that were taken away during post-Crisis, where he became the mundane regular Everyman who had a mid-life crisis in every second issue, and was only re-introduced in Morrison's Action, and continued through Lobdell's terrible execution and Pak.

[Blacksun]

Sometimes I have to remember that Morrison had a run on action comics, his run was forgetable but the next writers also didn't followed up like it should.
Batman comics you still feel Morrison presence in books like Grayson and batman & Robin. Even Eternal. Now superman comics is like a big mess.

Agreed with this, and with Prime.

Lobdell's take on Superman was very much in line with what Morrison established; giant threats from beyond space and time, a Clark Kent who was a crusading reporter and wanted to make the world a better place for the common man. Clark even left his job because he felt that modern journalism had failed those goals (the fact that editorial cut that subplot apart notwithstanding). His power levels increased, which follows up on Morrison's concepts. Superman was confident to the point of being reckless and perfectly willing to throw his weight around, but also never quite crossed the line to being a bully. That sounds a lot like Morrison to me; the problem is that Lobdell's a great idea man but a terrible writer.

Soule's certainly focused more on the "Clark" side of things, but still wrote Clark with more brass than how post-Crisis ended. Of all the regular "S" writers, I think Soule moved the furthest from Morrison, but given the book he was on and the hook it used, Im not sure how much better it could have been.

Pak's great and a real continuation of Morrison, I doubt that can really be argued.

Johns I havent read so I cant comment, but other than him, the only other writer (aside from quick stand-ins like Jurgens or Daniels) to really tackle Superman was Snyder, and he's the only one (except maybe Johns?) who hasnt caught up with the new (ie., old) take on Superman.

On red hood and outlaws he was pretty close to be a bully. Also superman line about put Orion drinking from a straw. Maybe I should have read more lobdell run (I'm quite happy a read so few issues, so no chance) but for me his superman approach is completely different from Morrison. Superman is not a tragic character.

Soule showed very little of clark, and his superman is pretty boring. Except when he have to mark his territory when the brother of his girlfriend call her "slut", so he goes all agressive.

Good thing that snyder didn't tried the new superman, no need to try to do something that barely other writer did. I have faith on snyder guts and I'm glad he had faith on himself.

Agreed. Nearly everyone else has a completely opposite narrative style to Morrison, where Superman displays a lack of conviction through internal dialogue rather than letting his actions speak for themselves. Superman doesn't enjoy his gifts and fight his never ending battle with purpose and determination. Unlike Batman, self-doubt plagues Superman as he strives to "be normal" in an effort to pander to the audience.

Superman needs more arcs like Unchained, John’s/Romita’s Men of Tomorrow and Man of Steel to become viable escapist fantasy again. Until he becomes the man of action that he was created to be, embracing his purpose in life and enjoying his own powers and abilities rather than being paranoid that some form of corruption is inevitable if he doesn't try to be mundane, Superman will remain broken in the minds of everyone outside of the niche market.

Johns and Snyder tries to embrace all superman mythos, instead of playing with little things. Johns learned how to not use caption boxes, that's a plus for me

[Sacred Knight]

I don't see how Snyder or Johns embrace all the Superman mythos compared to anyone else who has written the character lately. That just sounds like a buzz word that has no real meaning.

Fact is, if we really want to talk about embracing the most of Superman's history, Morrison's run wins that hands-down. Its not even a contest with the way he tried to incorporate so much. Its not necessarily something I consider absolutely key to a good run, mind you, but if we're going to bring it up we might as well get it right and not give the credit to the wrong writers.

[nathdog]

Broken? Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't 'Unchained' been Superman's biggest comic-book in years (delays notwithstanding)??

A few have been citing Unchained as an example of Superman performing strongly, but there needs to be analysis behind why it did so well. Was it the artwork? A good story that was not continuity based? Was it Scott Snyder? etc.

Admittedly artwork that appeals to me can entice me to a particular book and the current artists do not appeal to me and Rags Morales' work on the first issues of Action Comics was terrible (Harry Potter anyone?). Often Superman's adventures seem rather silly especially Grant Morrison's effort to reboot Superman so if I don't buy the premise then I don't like the book.

Superman is a great character and while I have liked the movies and I buy some of the books that appeal to me, purchasing Suoerman on a regular basis is just not appealing. I don't thinks the character has recovered from the Grounded and New Krypton debacle, which is why I largely stayed away from both books after 12 issues of Action and Superman in New 52.

[nathdog]

Lex Luthor
Brainiac
Mr. Mxyxzptlk
Metallo
Vyndxtvx
Doomsday
General Zod
Faora
Mongul
Atomic Skull
Hector Hammond
Hive Queen
Psycho Pirate

Compiling that list took nearly no effort at all.

Except for Luthor, Braniac, Zod and Faora (not sure if she counts being a movie input) his rogues galley is pretty lame compared to Batman's.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Except for Luthor, Braniac, Zod and Faora (not sure if she counts being a movie input) his rogues galley is pretty lame compared to Batman's.

If you're implying Mxyzptlk isn't great, you're...you're...you're a wrong person, is what you are.

[Blacksun]

I don't see how Snyder or Johns embrace all the Superman mythos compared to anyone else who has written the character lately. That just sounds like a buzz word that has no real meaning.

Fact is, if we really want to talk about embracing the most of Superman's history, Morrison's run wins that hands-down. Its not even a contest with the way he tried to incorporate so much. Its not necessarily something I consider absolutely key to a good run, mind you, but if we're going to bring it up we might as well get it right and not give the credit to the wrong writers.

I don't think johns or snyder are wrong writers. I may had forgot about morrison, but I still stand by my opinion.

[Superlad93]

Agreed. Nearly everyone else has a completely opposite narrative style to Morrison, where Superman displays a lack of conviction through internal dialogue rather than letting his actions speak for themselves. Superman doesn't enjoy his gifts and fight his never ending battle with purpose and determination. Unlike Batman, self-doubt plagues Superman as he strives to "be normal" in an effort to pander to the audience.

Don't agree with how you've put it but I do somewhat agree. Pak's writing, while absolutely solid and all around good find for Superman, have only followed Morrison's Superman in only tip toes rather than running after him and ahead of him. In a way he just follows Morrison's work superficially (better than anyone else writing the character but still). I think the contradictions come from the higher ups more than Pak himself with events like Doomed (which I remember was going to be penned no matter who the writer was. Max Landis was to work with Pak on it was a weekly at some point and back then it was the retelling of the death I think).

What I'm most upset about is the lack of exploration into all of the other avenues that Morrison purposefully left open for so that other writers can fill it. Morrison put out the literal blueprint in the form of a 5th dimensional look at what the character is in this new word, AND then he puts out a bunch of interview literally (as simply as humanly possible) he just tells us what this new Superman is like.

I think what would really reinvigorate the insert in the character and really bring him back around as a favorite is the exploration of the 5 years ago (such a constricting time frame I think) "t-shirt and jeans" Superman. Telling a whole new breath of Superman stories hardly seen by modern fans. Building from that t-shirt and jeans Superman a strong foundation for the character. Retell old golden age classic stories set in a modern era depression. Explore mistrust of the government--the black bags that make people disrepair and never come back. Through these folk tale-like stories build the character again. I almost feel like the t-shirt and jeans Superman is a break out character in himself that at times even over shadows the 5 years later Superman.

Don't stop there! Remember the hint at his time in the future as a kid? Explore that. What sort of adventures can a 12-13 year old under powered Superman have in the future? How long can he have them? What was it like to say goodbye to the friends that made you believe that it really does all turn out right in the end? Little stories that would color the character more.

DC is looking for a "blue sky" idea for it's characters? Well an anthology book that can take place anywhen in Superman's life sounds about right. It seems in line with how Grant set up the look at the Man of Steels life form the timeless higher dimensions of dimension 5. Superman:the family album sounds cool to me.

[Sacred Knight]

Well I'd recant Johns if I look outside the New 52, as he utilized a lot of Superman's history in his pre-New 52 Superman run. Snyder though, looking at Unchained I don't see how anyone could honestly assert that story was one that utilized all of Superman's mythos to any higher degree than anyone else had been around the same time. If anything he utilized it the least. Again, not necessarily the most horrible thing in a vacuum (though we all know I've been quite vocal that I think Unchained was an overall poor Superman tale), but all the same it wasn't a story relied on much of his rich existing mythology outside some Smallville flashbacks.

[Ascended]

On red hood and outlaws he was pretty close to be a bully. Also superman line about put Orion drinking from a straw.

Johns and Snyder tries to embrace all superman mythos, instead of playing with little things. Johns learned how to not use caption boxes, that's a plus for me

Red Hood, Arsenal, and Starfire are criminals. I dropped the book a while back so I dont know if they've changed this, but the entire premise back when Clark showed up was that they were all wanted for crimes. Whether they committed them or not is irrelevant, from Superman's point of view he was dealing with three former heroes turned villains; two of whom were former sidekicks and in possession of delicate information (secret identities, for example). They're all lucky he didn't just drag them to jail like he does any other felon.

And Orion is a douche who would make anyone want to break his jaw, and he's also the guy who grabbed Clark's girlfriend's ass. Once more, any attitude Clark had seems well warranted.

As for what Johns and Snyder have or have not embraced....I dont want this to sound like Im attacking you (because Im not) but how would you know if they've embraced "all Superman mythos" or not since you havent yet experienced the majority of it yourself?

[MeloDet]

Well I'd recant Johns if I look outside the New 52, as he utilized a lot of Superman's history in his pre-New 52 Superman run. Snyder though, looking at Unchained I don't see how anyone could honestly assert that story was one that utilized all of Superman's mythos to any higher degree than anyone else had been around the same time. If anything he utilized it the least. Again, not necessarily the most horrible thing in a vacuum (though we all know I've been quite vocal that I think Unchained was an overall poor Superman tale), but all the same it wasn't a story relied on much of his rich existing mythology outside some Smallville flashbacks.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Blacksun is referring to Superman's supporting cast here rather than his villains/history etc. Admittedly, this has been a weak point for some writers in the New 52 and Snyder did use the supporting cast (Lois in particular) rather well.

[Prime]

Batman had better moments...in FREAKING UNCHAINED. Like really?