Should there be a SUPERMAN GAME?

[Orpheus Jones]

If so, the Superman game definitely must be made by the same team at Rocksteady who did the Batman games.

Also, the story should be loosely based on Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" where Superman's enemies get together to kill him. Starting with Bizarro destroying the Superman Museum, Metallo attacking the Daily Planet, as well other attack on Superman's friends, leading to a final battle at the Fortress of Solitude with Luthor, Brainiac and Zod.

Another thing to consider, if the Superman game is as successful as the Batman games, DC Comic and Rocksteady might consider making a Wonder Woman game.

[jump]

I'd prefer something different than an Arkham game but with Superman in it.

[MikeP]

I'm not so sure about Rocksteady. We know they can make a great Batman game, but a great Superman game is a totally different thing.

[wjowski]

Easy. Take Prototype, get rid of the sociopathy, and there's your Superman game.

[Rahul]

I would be very hard to make a game that can makes you fly, feel almost invincible and still have it feel challenging. Only the most talented game developers can crack that code.

Most successful free-roaming games still have the element of vulnerability to its players. Superman however is impervious to everything except Kryptonite and magic. Having an excess of those two elements in the name of challenge would cheapen the game.

Having a quick-time button prompt based game would also not solve the problem.

[comicstalkcomics]

They made this game. We all hated it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dJXgJ1c4vY

I would be very hard to make a game that can makes you fly, feel almost invincible and still have it feel challenging. Only the most talented game developers can crack that code.

Most successful free-roaming games still have the element of vulnerability to its players. Superman however is impervious to everything except Kryptonite and magic. Having an excess of those two elements in the name of challenge would cheapen the game.

Having a quick-time button prompt based game would also not solve the problem.

You say that, but for the longest time I'd argue that one of the best super hero games was Hulk: Ultimate Destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrdxwFBC64

It really gave you the gravity to feel like The Hulk; when you died in that game it wasn't a single tank firing missiles at you: It was a screen full (well, as good as they could do then) of enemies throwing tons and tons of damage at you.

If they want to have a similar game with Superman then make it simple: The Sun's been blotted out by whatever villain your against. You start the game out really strong and, as the game goes on, you have to master more mechanics because you get weaker. You can even throw in something along the lines of "Kill enemies X or Y, who are solar based, to replenish your powers" or whatever.

As wjowski pointed out...the problem with building a Superman game now is there's already games that let you be Superman AND drive a spacecraft shaped like a Bald Eagle AKA Saints Row 4 AKA The most fun you can have sober.

[Rahul]

They made this game. We all hated it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dJXgJ1c4vY



You say that, but for the longest time I'd argue that one of the best super hero games was Hulk: Ultimate Destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrdxwFBC64

It really gave you the gravity to feel like The Hulk; when you died in that game it wasn't a single tank firing missiles at you: It was a screen full (well, as good as they could do then) of enemies throwing tons and tons of damage at you.

If they want to have a similar game with Superman then make it simple: The Sun's been blotted out by whatever villain your against. You start the game out really strong and, as the game goes on, you have to master more mechanics because you get weaker. You can even throw in something along the lines of "Kill enemies X or Y, who are solar based, to replenish your powers" or whatever.

As wjowski pointed out...the problem with building a Superman game now is there's already games that let you be Superman AND drive a spacecraft shaped like a Bald Eagle AKA Saints Row 4 AKA The most fun you can have sober.

Yeah, but the Hulk is a different animal(and I think UD is a standard in superhero games). The Hulk has tough skin and a healing factor. Getting overwhelmed by miltary force and robots is still a credible way to take down the Hulk even in the comics and cartoons. It fits the Hulk. The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. And then he destroys them all. That's a reasonable game mechanic.

Why not apply the same thing to Superman, (ala red sun, or in his starting days when he's just absorbing power from the yellow sun)? Superman is THE invincible hero. Superman is invincible from the beginning to mostly everything. Even bullets are nothing. Gamers don't want the challenges to Superman to come from puny bank robbers shooting him or even Luthor's robots firing missiles at him. They are the alpha dog of superheroes, so these things should be child's play to them. But the biggest threats should also be rewarding challenge-wise.

If we make a scenario to impose a weakness on Superman to adjust within the confines of the gaming framework, it does come off as cheap. Gamers will ask, "Why am I being restricted so much? I am Superman. I want to lift this tank and toss it at a robot right away! Why should I learn how to do it? I am Superman!".

So the feeling of being Superman gets compromised due to game mechanics. A successful Superman game is one that is not hindered by typical game mechanics.

But I will agree that a combination of UD and Saints Row probably stands as the best chance for a Superman game. Let's hope there are developers who can integrate the two into the best Superman experience.

[Ptrvc]

Supes really isn't anymore invincible than the Hulk, he's got plenty of enemies that can are just as, if not stronger than him. You can always scale obstacles up until they threaten anyone short of God.

(Its not a like the military has ever really been a threat to Hulk, they're basically his equivalent of normal human bank robbers/muggers. Just there to fill panels. Occasionally they'll get some supersoldier, or superweapon etc. but its never the standard military.)

Honestly the biggest problem to me seems to be the flying mechanic. Most games where you fly are completely based around it and force you to move forward continuously. Superman can also hover, and move in every 3 dimensional direction as well as suddenly fly forward. I've never seen a game with a solid superman style flight mechanic, it might be out there but I haven't seen it.

Then when you consider that flying is just one of Superman's powers they need to get right, their is also super speed, supers senses, x-ray vision etc (Super Strength and Lasers are pretty much the bread and butter of video games so those should be easy.)

Its not Superman's depth of power that's his problems, its the breadth of powers. Sure you could knock off some, but at minimum to be a superman game you need Flight, Super Strength, and Heat Vision.

And sure you can scale him down like that did with Hulk in Ultimate Destruction, but you gonna need at least that flight mechanic, and I've never seen done properly (again if anyone else has, feel free to enlighten me.)

[MikeP]

Supes really isn't anymore invincible than the Hulk, he's got plenty of enemies that can are just as, if not stronger than him. You can always scale obstacles up until they threaten anyone short of God.

(Its not a like the military has ever really been a threat to Hulk, they're basically his equivalent of normal human bank robbers/muggers. Just there to fill panels. Occasionally they'll get some supersoldier, or superweapon etc. but its never the standard military.)

Honestly the biggest problem to me seems to be the flying mechanic. Most games where you fly are completely based around it and force you to move forward continuously. Superman can also hover, and move in every 3 dimensional direction as well as suddenly fly forward. I've never seen a game with a solid superman style flight mechanic, it might be out there but I haven't seen it.

Then when you consider that flying is just one of Superman's powers they need to get right, their is also super speed, supers senses, x-ray vision etc (Super Strength and Lasers are pretty much the bread and butter of video games so those should be easy.)

Its not Superman's depth of power that's his problems, its the breadth of powers. Sure you could knock off some, but at minimum to be a superman game you need Flight, Super Strength, and Heat Vision.

And sure you can scale him down like that did with Hulk in Ultimate Destruction, but you gonna need at least that flight mechanic, and I've never seen done properly (again if anyone else has, feel free to enlighten me.)

It can be done. DC Universe Online had great flight mechanics. That was half the reason I played the game. You could hover and fly around with great steering.

[Ptrvc]

It can be done. DC Universe Online had great flight mechanics. That was half the reason I played the game. You could hover and fly around with great steering.

Was it well integrated into the fighting? Can it be used for the action game everyone is going to expect instead of just an MMO?

If so than maybe all you really need is someone who wants to put an effort into making a decent Superman game, make him powerful, but not invincible (Have him fight Darkseid, Doomsday, Mogul, Zod, Bizzaro, guys who can match him instead of just Luthor with a kryptonite powered, battlesuit again.) Just make a fun enjoyable game that stays true to Superman, with plenty of action, and maybe some deeper meaning for those who want it, like a good comic book.

Don't make an five hour long cutscene about an invincible space god trying to relate to mankind, with occasional press x to save the day sequences.

[MikeP]

I don't see why a good programming team couldn't integrate it with good fighting, maybe some form of lock on mechanic. It definitely could be done. They just need the right studio behind it.

[Slaughter]

I remember reading a similar topic in the old forum a few years ago and it gave rise to a now-lost Superman game idea I had.

I think the problems of a Superman game are:

1. The powers. How to make Superman feel, well, SUPER?
2. The scale. A sandbox-style game feels strange if Superman can't, say, suddently fly to Gotham. Or Space. Or Nepal.

The plot was that Brainiac shows up above Metropolis to bottle the city. First mission is sort-of-a tutorial, you have to fight brainiac probes through Metropolis, save people, minimize propriety destruction, etc. Superman is full-powered then. Then, Brainiac shows up looming sinisterly and the first boss fight happens - except its unwinnable, because this is the same as one of the last bosses (Brainiac's Skull Ship) and it WILL pwn Superman because its a very hard boss. In the end, a red sun blast sends Superman into a skyscraper (if you win, Brainiac does something else to Superman). The last thing Superman sees is a arriving Justice League. fade to black.

Vision returns, Supes comes out woozy from inside a lot of rubble. The sky looks like a giant glass bottle illuminated by a red lamp. Superman tries to up, up and away and falls on the ground. Quickly, Supes figures out what has happened and decides to disguise himself the way he knows best: He goes into Clark Kent mode.

The real game starts with a power-less Clark Kent having to, well, Clark Kent his way through patrolling Brainiac skeleton probes, a few brainwashed people-drones and supervillains who threw their lot with Brainiac (like Metallo) while searching for a little something Clark stored for just such a occasion: A kryptonian sun-crystal, designed to recharge his powers somewhat. The beginning relies on stealth, proper Clark Kenting (and not getting too close to the bots, or they scan Clark more trough and then Brainiac comes calling with his kryptonite-shooting robots), meeting the Daily Planet crew and other civilians in the bottled city (to obtain info) and getting back home to get the crystal (and maybe using a few scattered guns to stealthly destroy some robots on the way).

Gleaming info from the Daily Planet crew and other civvis, what happened before is made clear: The League lost to Brainiac and they are now either scattered or were captured before the bottling. Brainiac cracked Stryker's Island like an egg and liberated a entire army of supervillains as a anti-Superman and friends contigence.

Once the solar fuel crystal is found, Supes recharges but... the crystal was shattered and the pieces taken by Brainiac's robots, this means that the single piece found ins't enough to recover all the power, leaving Superman at Return of Superman-levels - hovering, lame superstrength, slightly enhanced human-level senses, etc. In a wacky coincidence, the only non-destroyed Superman uniform Clark has at the moment is the black suit from that same storyline, Yes, because I want a early part with Superman-with-guns shooting robots (no, you can't shoot people. Not lethally, anyway).

The plot then progresses into a sequence of finding sun crystals or other similar yellow sun recharges to stave off powerlessness, meeting allies within the resistance (a lot of people, and by that I mean A LOT - The SCU, Armed Forces, Steel and Natasha, Supergirl, Superboy, Sharif - yeah, the kid from The Sinbad Contract, because I liked him -, Gangbuster, Justice League members, etc. Oh, and Lex Luthor too) and helping them against attacking brainiac probes/supervillains, gathering info, exploring Metropolis and fighting Brainiac's forces, fulfilling side-quests* and having boss fights with villains (some of which are recurring, in order to give you the pleasure of having a hard life-or-death fight against a third-stringer villain, then casually slapping him on the other side of towns in a later fight).

Superman has a power meter, which as a rule increases through the game (through Brainiac's robots have red sun weapons which decrease it, and very rare Gold Kryptonite makes Superman powerless for a few seconds, red K can mimmick this effect sometimes). The goal is to have the player start immensely powerful, toy with this power a bit and then get slammed straight into powerlessness, through which the player will have to learn how to play right by using his limited powers to survive and win, increasing into power, eventually going from no powers to golden age to beyond until Superman hits full-power at the end of the midgame, and after giving the player the delicious pleasure of smacking around a lot of weaker villains fought early on, the heavy-duty enemies come and start razing Metropolis as a trap against Superman, leading into Superman's and Lex Luthor's final battle against Brainiac.

The player is on a closed sandbox city, which he can explore - imagine a enormous GTA city, that's Metropolis. Visit pretty much everywhere in Metropolis - Suicide Slum, Steelworks, the Ace of Clubs bar, STARS Labs, Lexcorp, The Daily Planet, Project Cadmus, etc. Exploration yields bonuses found in these places (info, recharges, tech, alles, etc)

*one little cool feature is that you can get a few items for Superman as special rewards for certain quests, so yes you can have Superman go around swinging Steel's hammer, or wear alternate outfits. or have a powerless Supes play with Lex's battlesuit for a while, or get a quite practical but fragile lead suit for these kryptonite-heavy battles.