The Dark Knight: What if Rachel is rescued?

[Amibo_Amore]

Scenario - When the Joker is being interrogated, he tells Batman the locations of Rachel Dawes and Harvey Dent (switching the addresses obviously).

However, let's say that Batman somehow sees through his tricks, and quickly decides to go to Harvey's "apparent" location, knowing that he'll find Rachel there. He sends Gordon's team to the other location.

What happens? And if/when Rachel is rescued on time, how will this affect the Joker's plans?

[normanosborn]

Well obviously there would be no Two Face. I don't think Joker bet on Harvey surviving and going crazy though, so it wouldn't really affect the plans. The main question is IMHO, would Rachel and Bruce get together? And would Bruce continue being Bats until "Rises"? I think he would, because there would be no dead cops to blame on him.

[Captain Librarian]

Whoa whoa whoa, we need more info.

So if Gordon goes to get Harvey, does Harvey die in the blast instead of Rachel?

If that happens, Dent "dies the hero" instead of "living long enough to become the villain." The Joker probably hopes people will be terrorized and lose hope, and I'll assume he then proceeds with his plan as normal. In the end, though, assuming everything went as they did aside from Harvey, Joker doesn't really have an answer when his plan fails, and grumbles internally how he's made Harvey a martyr.

Rachel was going to choose Dent, since Batman had to be well, Batman. Maybe, with the defeat of the Joker and Dent's inspiration, he decides he can phase out Batman (he did retire for a long time anyway, if you'll recall). Otherwise, I doubt they stay together. Without the dead cops, there's no need to blame Batman for their death, and perhaps he becomes a noble symbol of the defeat of the man who killed Harvey Dent. On the other hand, a lot of criminals now understood Batman to have a no kill policy, and without the myth of the killed crooked cops, maybe he runs into Joker wannabes?

Now if BOTH Dent and Rachel survive, maybe he and Rachel marry and lead Gotham into a brighter future. Now in that case I can see the Joker adjusting his plans to try and involve them. I don't know how though. What does this mean with the events in Dark Knight Rises? Dent probably becomes a target for Bane, and/or a figure for the people to rally behind against him, but that's about all I can guess.

[FrenchGemini]

Rachel was going to choose Dent, since Batman had to be well, Batman. Maybe, with the defeat of the Joker and Dent's inspiration, he decides he can phase out Batman (he did retire for a long time anyway, if you'll recall). Otherwise, I doubt they stay together. Without the dead cops, there's no need to blame Batman for their death, and perhaps he becomes a noble symbol of the defeat of the man who killed Harvey Dent. On the other hand, a lot of criminals now understood Batman to have a no kill policy, and without the myth of the killed crooked cops, maybe he runs into Joker wannabes?

That one might be actually good for Bats and Gotham, assuming he doesn't get killed or accumulate too serious injuries during the next eight years, because it would mean that "victory wouldn't defeat him", and he might have a better shot at defeating Bane the first time around, because:
-his skills wouldn't be rusty.
-he would have learnt to pace himself by that time, fighting smarter against Bane.

[big_adventure]

That one might be actually good for Bats and Gotham, assuming he doesn't get killed or accumulate too serious injuries during the next eight years, because it would mean that "victory wouldn't defeat him", and he might have a better shot at defeating Bane the first time around, because:
-his skills wouldn't be rusty.
-he would have learnt to pace himself by that time, fighting smarter against Bane.

I don't think "pacing himself" was his problem against Bane. I think trying to use stupid and totally ineffective smoke tricks instead of, you know, explosives or instant KO darts was his big mistake.

And given that barely a year as Batman reduced him to a hobbled guy on a cane, 8 more years would have left him in an iron lung.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I don't think "pacing himself" was his problem against Bane. I think trying to use stupid and totally ineffective smoke tricks instead of, you know, explosives or instant KO darts was his big mistake.

And given that barely a year as Batman reduced him to a hobbled guy on a cane, 8 more years would have left him in an iron lung.

Him asking the Attending Nurse where Rachel is in between "breaths" was an amusing image, I'll admit.

[Jonathan]

I don't think "pacing himself" was his problem against Bane. I think trying to use stupid and totally ineffective smoke tricks instead of, you know, explosives or instant KO darts was his big mistake.

And given that barely a year as Batman reduced him to a hobbled guy on a cane, 8 more years would have left him in an iron lung.

That was because he willing took a gunshot to distract Dent's attention from the kid, not because he couldn't handle constantly being Batman over and over again.

[big_adventure]

That was because he willing took a gunshot to distract Dent's attention from the kid, not because he couldn't handle constantly being Batman over and over again.

No, that's just not true. The doctor in TDKR commented on how his whole body was a wreck, and that, after, as stated, maybe a year and change of Batman-ing. One non-lethal and, hell, non-stopping GSW isn't doing that to someone in good shape (understatement even for Baleman) and with the medical care/rehab he's capable of obtaining.

[Jonathan]

No, that's just not true. The doctor in TDKR commented on how his whole body was a wreck, and that, after, as stated, maybe a year and change of Batman-ing. One non-lethal and, hell, non-stopping GSW isn't doing that to someone in good shape (understatement even for Baleman) and with the medical care/rehab he's capable of obtaining.

No your assuming. We don't what he did for those eight years other than not be Batman. Also, it wasn't just a gunshot, he fell a pretty significant distance in his confrontation with Harvey; a fall that probably would've crippled most normal men far beyond just a bump knee, if not being fatal outright.

[big_adventure]

No your assuming. We don't what he did for those eight years other than not be Batman. Also, it wasn't just a gunshot, he fell a pretty significant distance in his confrontation with Harvey; a fall that probably would've crippled most normal men far beyond just a bump knee, if not being fatal outright.

Actually, we have Alfred and everyone else mentioning that he's been a shut-in for 8 years, and we see that he's pretty handicapped. We have the doctor saying that he's basically broken down from overuse. You are trying to fit that into the narrative you've ascribed - but that's never stated. Nobody ever stated "you've got an acute injury here."

As far as it goes, he suffered a ton of serious-ish impacts and injuries (*cough* dogs *cough*) just in the time we see on-screen. There is no reason at all to believe that he would have somehow suffered less wear-and-tear than he had already suffered by that point if he had stayed Batman for 8 more years.

[Jonathan]

Actually, we have Alfred and everyone else mentioning that he's been a shut-in for 8 years, and we see that he's pretty handicapped. We have the doctor saying that he's basically broken down from overuse. You are trying to fit that into the narrative you've ascribed - but that's never stated. Nobody ever stated "you've got an acute injury here."

As far as it goes, he suffered a ton of serious-ish impacts and injuries (*cough* dogs *cough*) just in the time we see on-screen. There is no reason at all to believe that he would have somehow suffered less wear-and-tear than he had already suffered by that point if he had stayed Batman for 8 more years.

Possible I guess. But we don't absolutely know. For all we know, he could've fallen down the stairs at Wayne Manor a few times during those eight years. Maybe there were a few break ins that he had to handle. Or maybe nothing happened and your absolutely right. But we don't have absolute confirming evidence.

Also, there was more than just dogs. Like being smashed into a concrete pillar by a speeding van and falling off of a skyscraper to land on top of a car that was caved in by the fall and his girl landing on top of him for instance.

[big_adventure]

Possible I guess. But we don't absolutely know. For all we know, he could've fallen down the stairs at Wayne Manor a few times during those eight years. Maybe there were a few break ins that he had to handle. Or maybe nothing happened and your absolutely right. But we don't have absolute confirming evidence.

Also, there was more than just dogs. Like being smashed into a concrete pillar by a speeding van and falling off of a skyscraper to land on top of a car that was caved in by the fall and his girl landing on top of him for instance.

You are totally correct on both counts: we don't know the story, but based on what we do know, it was his year and change as the Bat that did the damage. And yes, I made the dog-joke, but in the same sentence:

As far as it goes, he suffered a ton of serious-ish impacts and injuries (*cough* dogs *cough*) just in the time we see on-screen.

[Dr Will Hatch]

I like to believe that Bruce did SOME minor crimefighting as Batman during the eight year gap(Muggers, rapists, etc). I know that Alfred said in TDKR that "You haven't been down here in a long time", but maybe by that he meant "You haven't been down here in six months".

Hey, a guy can dream.

[Endless_Legend]

Seems pretty consistent. A life of crimefighting would be hell on the body.

In real life, infantrymen go through similar wear and tear. I've heard it said that 4 years in the infantry is like 20 years as a professional athlete. Given that what we see Bats do all the time is even more extreme, I think it's not unreasonable to assume that his body is wrecked.

The human body just isn't meant to do things like this. It's meant for steady long-distance running and hunter-gathering, not for trying to be a superhero without any superpowers.

[Kuro]

Let's all be real here. Rises has some unbelievably questionable writing.

The most obvious one being when John Blake ("Robin" explains to Bruce how he knew Bruce was Batman.

"Yeah, I knew you were the Batman when I saw you walk into our orphanage."

Really, Nolan? And, really, you're just going to conveniently name-drop Robin at the very end of the movie? "Oh, your real name is Robin." NO. that is NOT his real name. OMG. that was so cheesy!