Spiderman vs Flash

[abmccray]

That fight was pretty much textbook SMvFL and, to be kind to Barry, literal PIS by way of mind control. Barry regularly carries full grown adults out of burning buildings/crashing trains so fast that they appear to teleport to safety, so a sustained hail of punches from him should probably have seriously injured or outright killed Ollie, even disregarding that predicting his punches shouldn't really have helped catch a blow from someone who can literally have an entire one-sided conversation with someone so fast that they don't even realize that they moved.

I mean, mind-controlled Barry even did the stereotypical "run in circles around your opponent and not react to their actions at all despite the fact that they are functionally motionless to you," only worse than normal since he wasn't even throwing punches or making a tornado, or anything. Seriously, even if his apparently baby-level strength during that fight was valid, that move alone should have lasted for one loop and ended with Ollie being pincushioned with his own arrows before he even realizes that anything happened.

It wasn't really SMvFL because:

a) they have been establishing all season that Barry is terrible at fighting and incredibly stupid with his powers (CIS), and
b) He was mind controlled so less rational than normal

What it does establish is that the "speedforce" in the show does not increase the mass of Barry's punches unless he's running in a straight line with them. And he's apparently so incredibly weak, that his hits rarely do anything. So in a fight, he'd have to use other tricks.

[The Drunkard Kid]

It wasn't really SMvFL because:

a) they have been establishing all season that Barry is terrible at fighting and incredibly stupid with his powers (CIS), and
b) He was mind controlled so less rational than normal

What it does establish is that the "speedforce" in the show does not increase the mass of Barry's punches unless he's running in a straight line with them. And he's apparently so incredibly weak, that his hits rarely do anything. So in a fight, he'd have to use other tricks.

A and B would explain the PIS to some degree (though there's a difference between not being a good fighter, and losing a fight to what is essentially a mannequin covered in easily appropriated sharp objects), but the fact that he can go from normal human strength (or rather, really, really, really fit human strength at the minimum judging by him solo-evacuating buildings/trains with his bare hands) to "baby with muscular dystrophy" levels of punching strength at super speed, followed by ending that combo with a single punch that *did* knock down the combat-trained Ollie pretty well is pretty much pure Spider-Man vs. Firelord right there.

[Cody]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfoeg0HSIlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qckKMEySSYg


My random speed videos aside, I agree with this post.

So who's faster; the guy from the second link, or Barry?

[Guy1]

So who's faster; the guy from the second link, or Barry?

So far, I'd put my money on Quicksilver. We had a thread about that too.

[The Drunkard Kid]

So who's faster; the guy from the second link, or Barry?

Hard to say, considering some of Barry's non-combat feats being comparably impressive. In a fight though, I'd bet on Pietro due to him being ludicrously more experienced and significantly more skilled in combat, as well as him being able to move at super-blur speeds for at least bursts while already moving at "bullets are crawling through molasses" levels of speeds, as well as possessing a walkman that plays at super speed in the 70s.

[Cody]

A and B would explain the PIS to some degree (though there's a difference between not being a good fighter, and losing a fight to what is essentially a mannequin covered in easily appropriated sharp objects), but the fact that he can go from normal human strength (or rather, really, really, really fit human strength at the minimum judging by him solo-evacuating buildings/trains with his bare hands) to "baby with muscular dystrophy" levels of punching strength at super speed, followed by ending that combo with a single punch that *did* knock down the combat-trained Ollie pretty well is pretty much pure Spider-Man vs. Firelord right there.

Another thing to consider is his performance during today's Arrow episode. He once again took out and bound groups of big grown men. The first group were outright knocked out. Then there was the massive number of pull ups he was doing in the "Arrow Cave". His strength is an inconsistent mess.

[moonknight11]

Ollie's durability is just that good

[Cody]

Ollie's durability is just that good

Well to be fair; he does have some decent durability feats of his own. So you may not be very far off. On the ship when he was "fighting" Slade while the latter was drugged up to Bane levels of strength, he was taking his hits quite well.

[big_adventure]

Hard to say, considering some of Barry's non-combat feats being comparably impressive. In a fight though, I'd bet on Pietro due to him being ludicrously more experienced and significantly more skilled in combat, as well as him being able to move at super-blur speeds for at least bursts while already moving at "bullets are crawling through molasses" levels of speeds, as well as possessing a walkman that plays at super speed in the 70s.

Quicky still has a pretty solid speed edge. Barry managed to outrace one bullet, and move a sign into it's way to stop it. Quicksilver ran several times around a room, took out a dozen guys, redirected a hail of bullets with finger taps, stopped for a drink and a snack, all in the space of time for those already-fired bullets to cross a few feet. He's still an order of magnitude or so better. But to be fair, Barry's closing the distance in speed. He's still got a looooooong way to go before he gets to Quicky's combat effectiveness, though. Finger taps that knock grown men across the room are way, way beyond Barry's best.

[abmccray]

Another thing to consider is his performance during today's Arrow episode. He once again took out and bound groups of big grown men. The first group were outright knocked out. Then there was the massive number of pull ups he was doing in the "Arrow Cave". His strength is an inconsistent mess.

Crossover rules - he's significantly more skilled on the other show

[big_adventure]

Crossover rules - he's significantly more skilled on the other show

Definitely can't short-sell that - he was massively more effective on Arrow then he's ever been on his own.

[abmccray]

He did say that he was specifically practicing what Ollie taught him, and trains in the lab constantly, and it was a week later, so maybe he got better.

[Cody]

Barry still has other strength feats involving casually carrying people with zero problems. Quite frankly I can buy Olie being able to survive Barry's flurry of punches, as his damage soak has shown to be pretty impressive. Again he took hits from guys that were hyped up on "Mirakuru" before, and they were shown to be capable of punching through metal. IIRC Black Arrow and him were punching holes through walls during their fight in the formers office back in season 1. And they were taking each others hits just fine as well.

I believe that; instead of saying Barry has "baby strength punching power", it should be noted that the Arrow just has nice damage soak.

[Acecool]

Hard to say, considering some of Barry's non-combat feats being comparably impressive. In a fight though, I'd bet on Pietro due to him being ludicrously more experienced and significantly more skilled in combat, as well as him being able to move at super-blur speeds for at least bursts while already moving at "bullets are crawling through molasses" levels of speeds, as well as possessing a walkman that plays at super speed in the 70s.

His finger punches are much more effective too.