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  1. #2521
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    Then there's the New Order future via the Nightwing mini. Sure this is more an elseworlds or Dark multiverse story. But there are very similar themes again being shown. Kate betrays the family and again is working for the Colony.
    Got that a bit wrinkled. There's no indication that the Colony exists in the New Order-verse; Kate simply stopped being a vigilante and went to work for the Pentagon sometime before the events in Metropolis.
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  2. #2522
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    To be fair, given the family that's assembled. Cass isn't the only one missing in that group shot. Kate is M.I.A. too (Helena is using her costume. So where's Kate?). So is Luke Fox and Helena. Stephanie's there only by "association" with Tim (same with Barbara to Dick) which I think is even a fate worse. That Stephanie is simply now classified as "love interest" to Tim only. Also where's Gotham Girl? Didn't King tell us back at the start of his run that Bruce was going to die and that Duke would marry Gotham Girl? So--- what happened to that? Why wasn't she there?

    Really, the only two close females present in that room are Selina, Carrie Kelly, and Helena his daughter. That's it. The rest are associated with their respective Robins. Which shipping wise is nice, but deep down I just find it meh.

    Then there's the future Tynion has set. Tim goes evil with the first step Kate betraying the family by rejoining the Colony (and obviously) doing something to Basil. The other notch is Jon's powers which turned into a sacrifice for him. But let's look at that future. Stephanie (having just missed Tim after she visited Lonnie who isn't so lucky and is murdered by Tomorrow Tim) and Jason are still around. Where's Cass? Now in the original Tomorrow timeline Cass was murdered by Duela Dent (along with Alfred and a ton of innocents). It was what set Tim off completely. So, there's a possiblity that this is the same as well. We haven't seen this Tomorrow Tim meet Cassandra, other than ironically she was the one who told the team to make the stand in protecting Kate from the Brother Eye program. This one we also has ties to 666 universe as it is alluded to Damian was Batman prior to Tim and the events from 666 comics were something Tomorrow Tim had to clean up.

    Then there's the New Order future via the Nightwing mini. Sure this is more an elseworlds or Dark multiverse story. But there are very similar themes again being shown. Kate betrays the family and again is working for the Colony. Dick is the one who adopts a more fantatical approuch (due to the death of someone close to him). Tim/Stephanie are happily retired and married.

    But wait there's another future! The Beyond Universe. Where we know about Tim, Dick, and Damian but now are getting hints of Duke existing along with more than one Batgirl.

    But as a wise Jedi Master once said, "Always in motion is the future." So the question is which future is being forged for these characters as of right now? Are any of these futures' set? Will there be a curve ball?
    I think the Duke/Claire stuff is closer to issue #100 of King's run, since he's been totally silent on the "death of Batman" stuff for a full year and a half.

    I disagree that Steph is just a love interest for Tim, especially since in Tec she's broken up with him and functioning on her own (much to my mixed feelings) for so long.

    I do love to think that Tim and Steph are married with lots of tiny babies who love their aunt Cass in New Order, though.

    None of these futures really matter, though. Just look at futures in the past - they function as trajectories that inform the present continuity, but another regime of writers and editors come in, they'll just go and do something dumb like declare Batman Beyond is the official future.
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  3. #2523
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Got that a bit wrinkled. There's no indication that the Colony exists in the New Order-verse; Kate simply stopped being a vigilante and went to work for the Pentagon sometime before the events in Metropolis.
    I don't see how the Colony couldn't have gotten folded into the New Order. Not saying that's how it is - after all, this is a universe that's much more from Higgin's Gates of Gotham continuity extrapolated rather than n52 or Rebirth continuity extrapolated, but I think it's possible.
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  4. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    To be fair, given the family that's assembled. Cass isn't the only one missing in that group shot. Kate is M.I.A. too (Helena is using her costume. So where's Kate?). So is Luke Fox and Helena. Stephanie's there only by "association" with Tim (same with Barbara to Dick) which I think is even a fate worse. That Stephanie is simply now classified as "love interest" to Tim only. Also where's Gotham Girl? Didn't King tell us back at the start of his run that Bruce was going to die and that Duke would marry Gotham Girl? So--- what happened to that? Why wasn't she there?

    Really, the only two close females present in that room are Selina, Carrie Kelly, and Helena his daughter. That's it. The rest are associated with their respective Robins. Which shipping wise is nice, but deep down I just find it meh.
    If it was just King excluding her from a possible future? Fine, whatever, he's done this before, it's annoying* and it just contributes more to my not wanting to read anything written by the man. But...

    *The presence of Duke and especially Carrie is frankly infuriating.

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post

    None of these futures really matter, though. Just look at futures in the past - they function as trajectories that inform the present continuity, but another regime of writers and editors come in, they'll just go and do something dumb like declare Batman Beyond is the official future.
    ...it's the fact that he brought up there being a "reason" that has me worried. If this is seriously the direction King sees the BatFamily going in and will have things building towards, there's reason to be concerned. It implies that there are plans to get rid of her and/or the "reason" why she isn't there is because in the eyes of DC, she isn't as important to Bruce as his other kids (Or bloody Duke and Carrie) but as much of an acquaintance as JPV and Luke.

    If nothing has happened on this end by August, I'll definitely be seeing what I can find out from Tynion.

  5. #2525
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    ...it's the fact that he brought up there being a "reason" that has me worried. If this is seriously the direction King sees the BatFamily going in and will have things building towards, there's reason to be concerned. It implies that there are plans to get rid of her and/or the "reason" why she isn't there is because in the eyes of DC, she isn't as important to Bruce as his other kids (Or bloody Duke and Carrie) but as much of an acquaintance as JPV and Luke.

    If nothing has happened on this end by August, I'll definitely be seeing what I can find out from Tynion.
    Eh. I don't think it's that bad. As long as Tynion is there, Cass has an advocate.
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  6. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Eh. I don't think it's that bad. As long as Tynion is there, Cass has an advocate.
    I try to remind myself of that. I'd probably have a better feeling about the situation if Snyder was sticking around, but at the same time it does seem like DC wants Tynion to become one of their big names that sticks around for many, many years so hopefully he does have the power to veto any plans King may be cooking.

  7. #2527
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    I try to remind myself of that. I'd probably have a better feeling about the situation if Snyder was sticking around, but at the same time it does seem like DC wants Tynion to become one of their big names that sticks around for many, many years so hopefully he does have the power to veto any plans King may be cooking.
    People tell me Snyder likes Cass and Steph. Maybe he does as a fan. But other than lending his name to a couple of important projects in their history, what has he actually done?
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  8. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    People tell me Snyder likes Cass and Steph. Maybe he does as a fan. But other than lending his name to a couple of important projects in their history, what has he actually done?
    In the case of Cass: He wrote Gates of Gotham, which was originally intended to be all about her before editorial decided they wanted it to focus on the group, he wanted to use her in Batman #1 (We don't have confirmation about the reason behind Harper's creation but this much I think we know is true), it was his influence later on which made DC give in to the fans and let him and Tynion bring her (and Steph) back and in Batman and the Signal's first issue, it may have just been a dream sequence, but she still had a place at the table in Duke's mind.

  9. #2529
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    In the case of Cass: He wrote Gates of Gotham, which was originally intended to be all about her before editorial decided they wanted it to focus on the group, he wanted to use her in Batman #1 (We don't have confirmation about the reason behind Harper's creation but this much I think we know is true), it was his influence later on which made DC give in to the fans and let him and Tynion bring her (and Steph) back and in Batman and the Signal's first issue, it may have just been a dream sequence, but she still had a place at the table in Duke's mind.
    Higgins wrote Gates of Gotham. Snyder's involvement was about as much as with the Eternal series.

    I acknowledged that his lending his name to the Eternals was important in their history. But Batman and the Signal is just another case of him lending his name.

    I dunno. I'm sure he likes reading about them. But he has no interest whatsoever in actually writing them himself.
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  10. #2530
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Because he fights to include them. Who wanted Batman continuity kept when the New 52 just after reintroducing her back into the family? Snyder. Who brought Stephanie back? Synder. Cassandra? Snyder. He's been very open of the battles he had to do deal with editorial in matters such as these. Kind of surprising he's frank about it on why we know what we know.

    I just wonder why this is even still a battle? When certain parties who aren't fond of this character are on other comics on the opposite spectrum or not even editor of the comics any longer. Then just who is that force then that continues to set this character back? Cause it's obivious there are creators out there who aren't fond of this character. And they're doing their damnest to quell it any chance they get.
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  11. #2531
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    Because he fights to include them. Who wanted Batman continuity kept when the New 52 just after reintroducing her back into the family? Snyder. Who brought Stephanie back? Synder. Cassandra? Snyder. He's been very open of the battles he had to do deal with editorial in matters such as these. Kind of surprising he's frank about it on why we know what we know.

    I just wonder why this is even still a battle? When certain parties who aren't fond of this character are on other comics on the opposite spectrum or not even editor of the comics any longer. Then just who is that force then that continues to set this character back? Cause it's obivious there are creators out there who aren't fond of this character. And they're doing their damnest to quell it any chance they get.
    He fights to have other people include them. Basically, he fights to tell other people how to write. Now, for Tynion, that worked, because Tynion does love these characters. But for other writers? I don't see it. And Snyder's solo stuff has NEVER contained Steph or Cass. It's always been co-writing stuff. Additionally, saying that it's Snyder who brought Steph and Cass back is not giving Tynion credit for how much he did. Snyder and Tynion were partners, but Tynion did the day-to-day "showrunning," not to mention writing the most issues in both series.

    Why do I keep bringing up my irritation with Snyder about Steph and Cass? Because he keeps doing it. He says "I love Steph and Cass," and writes them into exactly zero issues of Batman, while he includes Harper, Duke, and Julia in several key issues. Are Steph or Cass in All Star Batman? Nope. But Duke has a backup solo story.

    On the one hand, I get it. He created Duke. He gets money for him, so he wants to make sure Duke is established so when he leaves Gotham, Duke can't be ignored. But using Duke doesn't mean he couldn't have included Steph and Cass. But he didn't. And that really bothers me.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  12. #2532
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    He fights to have other people include them. Basically, he fights to tell other people how to write. Now, for Tynion, that worked, because Tynion does love these characters. But for other writers? I don't see it. And Snyder's solo stuff has NEVER contained Steph or Cass. It's always been co-writing stuff. Additionally, saying that it's Snyder who brought Steph and Cass back is not giving Tynion credit for how much he did. Snyder and Tynion were partners, but Tynion did the day-to-day "showrunning," not to mention writing the most issues in both series.

    Why do I keep bringing up my irritation with Snyder about Steph and Cass? Because he keeps doing it. He says "I love Steph and Cass," and writes them into exactly zero issues of Batman, while he includes Harper, Duke, and Julia in several key issues. Are Steph or Cass in All Star Batman? Nope. But Duke has a backup solo story.

    On the one hand, I get it. He created Duke. He gets money for him, so he wants to make sure Duke is established so when he leaves Gotham, Duke can't be ignored. But using Duke doesn't mean he couldn't have included Steph and Cass. But he didn't. And that really bothers me.
    Batman #28 aka the issue he flashforwarded and reintroduced Stephanie back into the comics.
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  13. #2533
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    Batman #28 aka the issue he flashforwarded and reintroduced Stephanie back into the comics.
    Which was a fill in issue that is basically Batman Eternal #0 co-written by Tynion...
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  14. #2534
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    Art based off the newest issue of 'Tec by cadhla182 on Tumblr:

    do it.jpg

  15. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    I've been optimistic, mostly based off Tynion's comments, both to myself and in interviews and some other encouraging factors. But since Batman Annual #2 and King's reveal that there's a "reason" why Cass isn't appearing in any future BatFamiles, I've basically gone to a mindset of 'oh God Tynion please don't let them kill her, turn her evil, ship her off or erase her again.'

    Also, I like to think that like Cass, I'd carry an indigo ring...if that corps wasn't so weird I mean.
    Hum...thats intriguing, and now im actually worried...what happened on Batman annual #2 regarding Cass?...and when did Tom King said that?

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