Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Blight]

I know we've all seen this piece, but it's so pretty, I figure its worth sharing again since I just bought the print version from Peter Nguyen

Attachment 55874

That is a gorgeous print. I remember at C2E2 this past year, he didn't have that print available (he didn't think it was popular enough or it was eliminated by process of elimination given the other prints he had. I can't remember which one it was but it wasn't available at the con). I told him that I so wanted that print badly I purchased the print on eBay at the end of the year (paid double the price). But I told him that's why I did it. Cause it was so hard to find that darn print, and it's such a beautitful work of art. Plus it's so darn hard finding prints of either two. Next day at the con I brought the print in a portfolio book (because I was getting the two pages of Batman & Robin Eternal #13 signed by Tynion) and had that print included. Got Peter to personally sign it to me this time.

Ah, I see. Well, I don't think he has anymore then. I'm still going to try and e-mail him to find out though. Thanks Assam!

Do so. Just tell him the truth. You're a fan of the characters and couldn't make the con. Don't do what I did. Not when you can approuch the artist directly.

[Assam]

Plus it's so darn hard finding prints of either two.

Right?! You'd think there would be more given the size of their fanbases, but I barely ever see prints for the two. Whenever an artist is selling a print of "DC Female Heroes", it's ALWAYS Babs and/or Kate that's included.

I blame the Nu52 erasing them.

[Blight]

Right?! You'd think there would be more given the size of their fanbases, but I barely ever see prints for the two. Whenever an artist is selling a print of "DC Female Heroes", it's ALWAYS Babs and/or Kate that's included.

I blame the Nu52 erasing them.

It isn't just the New 52. It's also the fact that after DC was done with them. That was it. There wasn't any promotion or fanfare. They buried them then brought them out to bury them again. It's more a calculated move to drive away the fan base to allow moves (such as Babs being brought back as Batgirl) to happen. Then there's the flip side to which Babs will always be more drawn because of: cheesecake. You ain't ever gonna see a Cass/Steph print like the ones you see of Babs as Batgirl in various artist alleys because their not seen as a sexually liberated character like Babs is (or go for the easy cheesecake money). Perhaps in a way that's better that way. Because if you do see a Cass or Steph print. You know it's by an artist who understands the character more, and it's probbaly a favorite of their's.

For Cass, the prints that artists have of her are showcasing the fact she's a badass hero and showcase the bad ass part. If not that it's acknowledging her as a core member of the family (when showing off Bruce and the kids) or the legacy portion of the Batgirl mantle. The prints are out there. Cause I have a whole darn portfoilio book of just Bat prints. Though, those that have a ton of Cass prints: Dustin Nguyen, Peter Nguyen, and Marcus To. You begin to notice another fact as to why they do it. They also kind of realize the importance that she was basically the biggest Asian female hero for a good chunk of time. She was a trailblazer. Yet some people and companies forget that fact. These artists don't.

There was a panel this past year at C2E2, that involved Asian Characters and Creators. It dabbled more into the creator portion than the characters, given the time limits (the panel was sadly only an hour). But I find the subject fascinating, but I kept quiet throughout it all because I realized the subject was leaning toward the other because these creators answered questions that new folk had on getting into the industry. I didn't want to subject the panel to a lesser character question.

[Assam]

It isn't just the New 52. It's also the fact that after DC was done with them. That was it. There wasn't any promotion or fanfare. They buried them then brought them out to bury them again. It's more a calculated move to drive away the fan base to allow moves (such as Babs being brought back as Batgirl) to happen.

Sadly true as well.

If not that it's acknowledging her as a core member of the family (when showing off Bruce and the kids) or the legacy portion of the Batgirl mantle. The prints are out there. Cause I have a whole darn portfoilio book of just Bat prints.

Hopefully I'll come across some eventually.

Though, those that have a ton of Cass prints: Dustin Nguyen, Peter Nguyen, and Marcus To. You begin to notice another fact as to why they do it. They also kind of realize the importance that she was basically the biggest Asian female hero for a good chunk of time. She was a trailblazer. Yet some people and companies forget that fact. These artists don't.

Cass is definitely still one of the biggest Asian heroes (female or otherwise) in the Big 2, even if she's not as popular as she was when still Batgirl. Besides Katana, whose fanbase purely among comic fans I'd argue isn't significantly larger, if at all, than Cass's, DC doesn't have anyone that competes. (Besides Damian, but DC definitely doesn't see him as Asian. ) And Marvel? Much like DC they do have a handful of good/great Asian characters (I'd argue DC has more, sad as that is to say, especially when you consider how DC has treated most of their popular Asian characters) but Jubilee is really the only one who might have as much of a fanbase as Cass from what I can tell. I specifically say "As much" because I freely admit that Kamala is FAR more popular than Cass currently, much as she's more popular than MOST comic characters right now.

But yes, as you say, it is good that these artists recognize her significance.

[Blight]

There are four artists that I know of who have Cass prints. Craig Rousseau (single with Bruce), Christopher Jones (Batgirls), and three artists whose names I can't recall sadly. I just know one made her deviantart print of Cass (based on Kill Bill Vol. 1). The other two were Bat Family prints that I bought at midwest cons (and I've seen these artists there a lot in the past). One is of Cass, Bruce, Tim, Selina, and Gordon. The other is of Bruce, Damian, Barbara, Kate, Dick, Selina, Cass, and Tim.

[The Whovian]

There are four artists that I know of who have Cass prints. Craig Rousseau (single with Bruce), Christopher Jones (Batgirls), and three artists whose names I can't recall sadly. I just know one made her deviantart print of Cass (based on Kill Bill Vol. 1). The other two were Bat Family prints that I bought at midwest cons (and I've seen these artists there a lot in the past). One is of Cass, Bruce, Tim, Selina, and Gordon. The other is of Bruce, Damian, Barbara, Kate, Dick, Selina, Cass, and Tim.

How much did their prints cost?

[Blight]

How much did their prints cost?

The Batfamily (Bruce, Tim, Cass, Selina, and Jim) was $10. The other Batfamily one was $15-20. I can't recall the full price. Christopher Jones' print is usually $30, but he has sales at his booth where you can buy a bunch at a reduced price. $20 was for Craig's print of Cass/Bruce, but you're going to have to message or e-mail him to get that print. The Kill Bill volume 1 with Cass was like $30 or more.

[The Whovian]

The Batfamily (Bruce, Tim, Cass, Selina, and Jim) was $10. The other Batfamily one was $15-20. I can't recall the full price. Christopher Jones' print is usually $30, but he has sales at his booth where you can buy a bunch at a reduced price. $20 was for Craig's print of Cass/Bruce, but you're going to have to message or e-mail him to get that print. The Kill Bill volume 1 with Cass was like $30 or more.

Cool, thanks!

[AJpyro]

I did it friends. I finished Cass's last big trade. I am now sad that there's not more.

[Assam]

I did it friends. I finished Cass's last big trade. I am now sad that there's not more.

Well, hopefully they'll eventually release the Horricks and Gabrych runs. Both have some real crap in there, but there's also plenty of greatness.

Any final thoughts on Puckett's run? Favorite aspects? Favorite issues? Thoughts on Cass?

[PyroTwilight]

This is something that was brought up and I saw it chatted about on tumblr (particularly due to the recent arc she, Zatanna and Batwoman teamed up) but what do Cass' fans feel about her potentially coming out onto the LGBT spectrum (regardless of where exactly)?

[Assam]

This is something that was brought up and I saw it chatted about on tumblr (particularly due to the recent arc she, Zatanna and Batwoman teamed up) but what do Cass' fans feel about her potentially coming out onto the LGBT spectrum (regardless of where exactly)?

I would love it. I've personally always headcanoned her as Pan.

[AJpyro]

Well, hopefully they'll eventually release the Horricks and Gabrych runs. Both have some real crap in there, but there's also plenty of greatness.

Any final thoughts on Puckett's run? Favorite aspects? Favorite issues? Thoughts on Cass?

The artwork just works. Especially on the violence. Favorite aspect/issues: the ones that deal with David Cain and Shiva. Dysfunctional doesn't cover it. And the last issue is close(to me) to Miller's DD issue featuring Chucky.

It also has me greatly interested in Dixon stories.

[PyroTwilight]

BlackSteph has gotten pretty popular on Tumblr.

I know this is from about a month ago but Steph's one of those characters that I remember being debated a lot about at one point regarding her race.

Particularly regarding whether she was supposed to be "just" white. As the art made for her mother varied so greatly that many thought she might be part Latin/Hispanic in particular.

Makes me wonder similarly about Jason at times. I mean we know Lady Shiva is Cass' mom of course but I was always struck by Batman thinknig Lady Shiva might be Jason's mother during Death in the Family all those years ago. Doesn't that mean in universe Bruce honestly thought Jason's mother could've been Asian and that he might look it?

[Aahz]

Makes me wonder similarly about Jason at times. I mean we know Lady Shiva is Cass' mom of course but I was always struck by Batman thinknig Lady Shiva might be Jason's mother during Death in the Family all those years ago. Doesn't that mean in universe Bruce honestly thought Jason's mother could've been Asian and that he might look it?

The thing is that Shiva might originally not have been fully Asian her self. At least here she is called "eurasian".