Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Agent Z]

Welcome back, Assam.

[Assam]

Welcome back, Assam.

Thanks dude.

[El_Gato]

Thanks dude.

You sure missed a lot of interesting threads, at least in the DC section lol. I'm sure you'll add your two cents to some of them of course xD

[Assam]

You sure missed a lot of interesting threads, at least in the DC section lol. I'm sure you'll add your two cents to some of them of course xD

Take a look. I'm already working through some of these.

[Katana500]

Take a look. I'm already working through some of these.

Yay! Glad to see you back Assam.

You sure have been gone awhile. Look forward to seeing your comments on all the different threads!

[Blight]

Still curious what you meant by this. I figured you were working on fanart or something.




I was debating over getting the game after seeing this, but I've decided against it. LOVE that Cass is included at all obviously, but between the high price point, the fact that I'd rarely get to play the game and the box art actively disgusting me, reminding me of all the BatFam art which excludes her, making me not even want it on my shelf, it's a pass for me.

I'm being mum on that. For now at least.

I'm getting the game. The box art isn't an issue given Selina, Jean-Paul, Ra's, and others were neglected too. The fact that Cass is in the game and they've been teasing we might get a Batgirl variant too (they've been liking anyone asking for it on their Facebook group and played coy on the issue). So if it's part of the rewards? I'll do it cause i know my friends and I will eat a game like this up. We love the ablity of a game on this scale because it means not one game will be the same twice.

[Assam]

I'm being mum on that. For now at least.

Ooh. Mysterious.

The fact that Cass is in the game and they've been teasing we might get a Batgirl variant too (they've been liking anyone asking for it on their Facebook group and played coy on the issue). So if it's part of the rewards? I'll do it cause i know my friends and I will eat a game like this up. We love the ablity of a game on this scale because it means not one game will be the same twice.

I'm a tabletop gamer too and it does sound really cool, but I know my friends and this isn't something we'd play often.One group has zero interest in comics and the other prefers simpler games.

[Blight]

Ooh. Mysterious.



I'm a tabletop gamer too and it does sound really cool, but I know my friends and this isn't something we'd play often.One group has zero interest in comics and the other prefers simpler games.

My friends and I have a big interest in comics. One of them has the DC Deckbuilding Game and one of the complaints that me and another friend had is it just doesn't hit that niche. It's fun, it was made during the New 52. So all those awful designs are the "main" character sheets. This? This reminds me of "Last Night on Earth" but with Batman. Already I can foresee my friends and I getting into some legendary scenarios.

[adrikito]

YOU ARE FINALLY HERE... WELLCOME ASSAM.

You returned with a new look(avatar)..

[Assam]

My friends and I have a big interest in comics. One of them has the DC Deckbuilding Game and one of the complaints that me and another friend had is it just doesn't hit that niche. It's fun, it was made during the New 52. So all those awful designs are the "main" character sheets. This? This reminds me of "Last Night on Earth" but with Batman. Already I can foresee my friends and I getting into some legendary scenarios.

Sounds like you'll be having fun.

YOU ARE FINALLY HERE... WELLCOME ASSAM.

Thanks dude. Some good stuff happened while I was gone. An an example, for reasons which are of course completely unrelated to the topic of this thread, I started taking ballet classes...

...whether or not I'll be implementing the moves into my fighting style remains to be seen.

You returned with a new look(avatar)..

Yup, it's Rhyme from The World Ends with You, both my favorite video game and my favorite fictional story; I love it almost as much as Cass. I decided to change the avatar in celebration of TWEWY being ported to the Switch, which gives me hope that we will one day see a sequel. And I chose Rhyme because of the five main characters, she's the only one you never get to play as and I'm really hoping you get the chance to in the port's extra content.

[Assam]

Got around to writing this during my ban:

As requested by Dataweaver, the following is an outline for how I might have done Battle for the Cowl in a way that includes Cass and sets up a new status quo for her, as it should have, and the aftermath of it. I'm also gonna be trying to make a decent story, which BftC wasn't by any stretch. The rules I'm setting for myself: 1) Nothing I include here can get in the way of what Morrison 's Batman and Robin was. I don't hold Morrison in any high regard, but he was going to do his Dick and Damian, Batman and Robin book one way or the other. 2) I have to keep it 3 over-sized issues. 3) I can make as many changes as I want, but the core conflict must remain the same. (Truthfully, that's ALL I'm keeping.)

Issue #1- Open on Black Mask and his men in the middle of an operation. They start getting picked off, it looking like Bruce is somehow back, but when 'Batman' takes down Black Mask, we see it's Jason in his Bat suit. Just in general, we're scrapping EVERYTHING to do with how Jason was written in this book because Daniel and Morrison had no idea what they were doing with him. Let's just say he'd act like he did under Winnick's pen. We then cut to the Batcave where Tim, Dick and Alfred are standing around, discussing what they're going to do now that Bruce is gone. Dick is unsure about their plan, but Tim and Alfred assure him “She's ready.” Cut to upstairs as Cass is about to go through the entrance to the Batcave. Before she heads down though, Babs and Steph show up and here we get the reunions we were deprived of. The three then head down and she's welcomed by Tim as the new Batman. She's still sad about Bruce, especially since she'd just been adopted right before he disappeared. However, she's still confident about taking up the cowl. That night while on patrol, Tim finds Jason in his Batsuit killing some criminals. Jason trolls him for a bit, egging him on and Tim tries to take him down. Despite his best efforts though, while he does get in some good licks, Jason beats him.

Issue #2- Open on a scene of Damian (whose also gonna be written in a way in line with their character here) in some trouble and getting assitance from Dick. We get some more of Dick's feelings about the idea of him being Batman and some foreshadowing for the two about the ultimate outcome of this story. Cut to the Batcave where Tim's beating has taken him out of commission but he's still trying to make light of it, that is a duty of Robin after all. But Cass isn't having any of that. He's killing people and disrespecting the Bat. Babs calls and tells them she's tracked Jason down. Cass goes off after him and asks them not to call anyone else, wanting to handle this herself. When she gets there, Jason, keeping his distance, starts a conversation, expressing surprise that she's the one wearing the cowl. Cass lists off things that Bruce had told her about him; angry as she is, she's also sad that he's chosen this path and would optimially just want to set him straight. We'd then get a brief clash of their ideals, but that would mostly be set-up for a potential future story. Jay then lists off certain things he's heard about her. They're all impressive or flattering things until the last one: that Drake beat her in one punch. Hard cut to Jason being sent flying thorugh several walls. Back in the Batcave, Alfred talks to Tim. He asks him if he's planning on being Cass's Robin once he's recoverd, Tim's answer alluding to what his actual plans are. Elsewhere, Dick gets a call from Babs, who, worried about her, tells Dick where Jason is and sends him over as back-up. Cass proceeds to beat the crap out of Jason, the later barely able to do anything against her. However, what he IS able to do is lead the fight where he wants, disabling her with a trap he has set-up. The issue ends with Jason giving the set-up for a one-liner Dick delievers as he arrives.

Issue #3- Dick and Jason fight. The two are shown to be nearly equal , but Dick ultimately wins out. He tells him to leave Gotham and stop wearing the Bat or the next time they see him, they will take him in. Last warning. Later in the cave, Dick arrives back to see a grinning Cass and Tim. He wants to know what's going on when Alfred comes in with his new Batsuit. Dick is confused and tells Cass that she shouldn't feel unworthy just because she got taken down; Batman isn't flawless. Cass tells him that that has nothing to do with it. Tim explains his theory that Bruce is still alive and Cass agrees with him. She still wants to be Batman and has no doubts that when Bruce is really gone, she'll be the one to take over. For now though, she and Tim are leaving Gotham to find answers about what really happened to him. (Dataweaver, I know you're a Tim fan first so I know you'll appreciate this taking the place of the scene in Red Robin where Dick and Damian kick Tim out while he's on the verge of a mental breakdown.) She knows this isn't really what Dick wants, but she doesn't want Tim to be alone and Dick still firmly believes that Bruce is really dead. Dick reluctantly agrees, resigning that he'll have to find his own meaning for the Bat. Tim jokes about Dick needing a new Robin and mockingly suggests Damian, which Dick looks to actually be considering, much to Tim's horror. They say goodbye and the book ends with the new Batman staring over Gotham City.

From there, Cass would appear in the first issue of Steph's book in a similar way to how she did originally, the two of them having a scene fighting together. This time though, she's explaining what her and Tim are planning and there's a much more optimistic tone to things. She leaves the Batgirl suit with Steph and leaves it ambiguous why (Since her becoming Batman was shown as being the plan, the later retcon that Steph becoming Batgirl was Bruce's idea could actually work.) Steph is a bit disappointed since she and Babs just started getting to see her again, but Cass promises that she'll be back soon.

Cass would be Tim's co-star for the first year of Red Robin, appearing alongside him as well during the Batgirl crossover. (That's where I'd have the 'Team Batgirl' name created, even if Cass isn't sticking around to be a part of it.) Then following Bruce's return, Cass would only be a recurring character in Red Robin, and make regular guest appearances across the rest of the line, but her new main home, if she couldn't have her own book, would be with the Birds of Prey, now serving as the third main Batman and the team's field leader (We know Simone actually wanted to use Cass so this kinda fits too.)

[Dataweaver]

I might tweak it to be a little less talky; when possible, show don't tell. And I might adjust some of the stuff in the final issue; while I wasn't fond of Dick taking the Robin costume away from Tim, I did like the fact that at least for the first few issues of Red Robin, Tim was alone in his belief that Bruce was alive. So I'd be more inclined to end Battle for the Cowl with Tim just up and disappearing, leaving the Robin costume behind along with a note saying “Bruce is alive!” (Why leave the costume behind? Because he's never seen “Robin” as a permanent gig, and it's time to move on.)

Everyone reacts to that more or less as they originally did, except Cass. Cass confronts the others with something to the effect of “what if he's right?”, and leaves on that note. We next see her in Batgirl #1, more or less as originally depicted there, but ending by telling Stephanie that she's got something to do.

I'd also try to make Stephanie a bigger part of Battle for the Cowl, demonstrating her frustration that she's still not being taken seriously and further setting her up for where we see her next in Batgirl #1. Possibly even have Tim include something in his not about wanting Stephanie to have the Robin costume — something that Dick rejects in favor of giving it to Damian, who “needs it more”.

Then, somewhere around Red Robin #4 or so, after firmly establishing that Tim will not give up on his search for Bruce even if the whole world is against him (but might be losing his mind), he gets a sense that someone's trying to track him down. A little investigation turns up Cass, who he at first assumes is there to bring him home just like everyone else. But as he's trying to push her away, she says that she's there to help him find Bruce. She's not convinced that he's alive the way Tim is; but she hopes he is. And if he is, she wants to find him, too. For the rest of the “search for Bruce” story arc, she's true to her word and we see the dynamic that Bruce saw when he pictured Tim and Cass jointly taking over for him.

That said, the book is called “Red Robin”, and Cass' role in the book is more supporting character than costar. She gets her moments to shine, but ultimately it's still Tim's quest: the wham points around which the plot turns are his.

Concurrently with this, we start laying the groundwork for Cass to transition over to Birds of Prey. After Bruce is recovered, Cass more or less drops out of Red Robin and instead features in Birds of Prey.

[Assam]

So we've got good news and bad news.

The good news is that, for what I think is the first time, Cass and Steph are mentioned together in a solicit!

DETECTIVE COMICS #980

Written by James Tynion IV, art by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.
"Batmen Eternal" part five! The worst possible future for Gotham City has been locked into place, and there's nothing Batman can do to stop it...until Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain catch a glimpse of something they never would have thought possible!
32 pages, $2.99, in stores on May 9.

Anyone else thinking they're gonna see future versions of themselves as Batman and Nightwing, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

As for the bad news...yeah, Tynion's done.

DETECTIVE COMICS #981

Written by James Tynion IV, art and cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.
"Batmen Eternal" finale! The unbelievable conclusion of James Tynion IV's Batman epic! It's the last stand of the Gotham Knights, fighting a monster they helped inspire...and a destiny they won't accept! What will become of the greatest crime-fighting team Gotham City ever saw?
32 pages, $2.99, in stores on May 23.

Also for some reason, Steph isn't on the cover of the last issue alongside every other member.

[millernumber1]

So we've got good news and bad news.

The good news is that, for what I think is the first time, Cass and Steph are mentioned together in a solicit!

DETECTIVE COMICS #980

Written by James Tynion IV, art by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.
"Batmen Eternal" part five! The worst possible future for Gotham City has been locked into place, and there's nothing Batman can do to stop it...until Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain catch a glimpse of something they never would have thought possible!
32 pages, $2.99, in stores on May 9.

Anyone else thinking they're gonna see future versions of themselves as Batman and Nightwing, or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

As for the bad news...yeah, Tynion's done.

DETECTIVE COMICS #981

Written by James Tynion IV, art and cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez, cover by Eddy Barrows, variant cover by Rafael Albuquerque.
"Batmen Eternal" finale! The unbelievable conclusion of James Tynion IV's Batman epic! It's the last stand of the Gotham Knights, fighting a monster they helped inspire...and a destiny they won't accept! What will become of the greatest crime-fighting team Gotham City ever saw?
32 pages, $2.99, in stores on May 23.

Also for some reason, Steph isn't on the cover of the last issue alongside every other member.

Where are these posted?

[Assam]

Where are these posted?

http://www.buzzcomics.net/showpost.p...41&postcount=1