Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[frostedemma]

So i just finished my annual re reading of cass batgirl run and it's such a shame dc decided to reduce her to basically a d list character in n52 and rebirth. she went from being the first batgirl with a solo run (and a long one at that) to the only comic where she has appearances is detective comics.....

[frostedemma]

Also I always felt like cass batgirl run and its popularity somehow started the trend of writing darker teenage female character and exploring their trauma in comics. I'm convinced cass cain inspired marjorie liu x-23 run. I'm not saying that before batgirl there was no fictional teenage girl with trauma and dark themes in comics (after all the new mutants exist) but centring an entire book on a teenage girl trauma and consistently exploring dark themes in said book? Yeah i feel like cass cain allowed for that in mainstream comics

[Fergus]

https://www.cbr.com/gotham-season-5-...ampaign=CBR-TW

I might have to watch Gotham now...

All the times I've denounced Cass's lack of media appearances...this isn't what I wanted.

I don't watch the show but might try it just for Cass.

[The Dying Detective]

Also I always felt like cass batgirl run and its popularity somehow started the trend of writing darker teenage female character and exploring their trauma in comics. I'm convinced cass cain inspired marjorie liu x-23 run. I'm not saying that before batgirl there was no fictional teenage girl with trauma and dark themes in comics (after all the new mutants exist) but centring an entire book on a teenage girl trauma and consistently exploring dark themes in said book? Yeah i feel like cass cain allowed for that in mainstream comics

Hmm what about Damian Wayne who debut much later you think he was part of the trend? Though how do you know it's a trend when there are only two girls?

[frostedemma]

Hmm what about Damian Wayne who debut much later you think he was part of the trend? Though how do you know it's a trend when there are only two girls?

I whole heartedly believe damian wayne is an cass cain expy. As much as i like damian i think its a shame he basically replaced cass in n52 and rebirth. Also yes there was only two girls who with major solo (x-23 is pretty iconic tho) i think it allowed for teenage girls in comics to be dark and have their trauma explored. Characters like surge, kate bishop (after the first young avengers girl she's become more quirky tho) and a few others i'm forgetting. But then n52 batgirl came and kinda erased all of that because now the fixation with female characters is too make them as quirky and upbeat as possible which isn't inherently wrong but when you forgo a female character trauma, disability, past characterisation and etc all for the sake of quirkiness it starts to be a problem

[The Dying Detective]

I whole heartedly believe damian wayne is an cass cain expy. As much as i like damian i think its a shame he basically replaced cass in n52 and rebirth. Also yes there was only two girls who with major solo (x-23 is pretty iconic tho) i think it allowed for teenage girls in comics to be dark and have their trauma explored. Characters like surge, kate bishop (after the first young avengers girl she's become more quirky tho) and a few others i'm forgetting. But then n52 batgirl came and kinda erased all of that because now the fixation with female characters is too make them as quirky and upbeat as possible which isn't inherently wrong but when you forgo a female character trauma, disability, past characterisation and etc all for the sake of quirkiness it starts to be a problem

But hmm you don't say though Damian's creation originates more from an old Elseworld story Son of the Demon that had been retconned in and out of continuity where Bruce and Talia were married and Talia became pregnant only for her to fake a miscarriage and put up the baby who would be Damian up for adoption. The details of Son of the Demon have been retconned back in but they are a little hazy. Under Grant Morrison it was drug rape while Tomasi stipulates that Batman lost his head and gave into a moment of passion with Talia. Hmm I guess that makes sense though Kate Bishop and Surge seem to come more from different mold than from Cassandra Cain and X-23 though. So I'm not sure whether Surge or Kate Bishop was part of the trend.

[frostedemma]

But hmm you don't say though Damian's creation originates more from an old Elseworld story Son of the Demon that had been retconned in and out of continuity where Bruce and Talia were married and Talia became pregnant only for her to fake a miscarriage and put up the baby who would be Damian up for adoption. The details of Son of the Demon have been retconned back in but they are a little hazy. Under Grant Morrison it was drug rape while Tomasi stipulates that Batman lost his head and gave into a moment of passion with Talia. Hmm I guess that makes sense though Kate Bishop and Surge seem to come more from different mold than from Cassandra Cain and X-23 though. So I'm not sure whether Surge or Kate Bishop was part of the trend.

Kate bishop does come from a different mould but her assault in central park did leave her extremely traumatised and there is that one issue in young avengers where jessica and kate talk about their trauma. While surge wasn't raised as a weapon like cass and laura, noriko is a teenage runaway like them and she has a dark past of her own being a homeless youth and suffering from addiction

[adrikito]

congratulations for the 200th page Cass.

[The Dying Detective]

Kate bishop does come from a different mould but her assault in central park did leave her extremely traumatised and there is that one issue in young avengers where jessica and kate talk about their trauma. While surge wasn't raised as a weapon like cass and laura, noriko is a teenage runaway like them and she has a dark past of her own being a homeless youth and suffering from addiction

I honestly thought the trend was child assassins though not characters suffering from trauma because it's not a new thing since you have Jessica Jones and Carol Danvers who preceded Kate Bishop, Surge, Cassandra Cain, and X-23.

[Aahz]

But then n52 batgirl came and kinda erased all of that because now the fixation with female characters is too make them as quirky and upbeat as possible which isn't inherently wrong but when you forgo a female character trauma, disability, past characterisation and etc all for the sake of quirkiness it starts to be a problem

The n52 Batgirl was actually quite dark for roughl the first 3 years.

Damian seems for me an other archetype than Cass. Due to him being a bratty child. And he has also several copies (like Emiko or Hitgirl).


And I would suspect that both existed probably first in Manga, even if I can't give an example (I'm not a big manga fan).

[adrikito]

Damian seems for me an other archetype than Cass. Due to him being a bratty child. And he has also several copies (like Emiko or Hitgirl).
.

I heard that this Hitgirl is more like WALLER now:

https://www.cbr.com/mark-millar-hit-...er-comparison/

[Caivu]

Nice, 200 pages!

[Assam]

Wooh! 200 Pages!

So i just finished my annual re reading of cass batgirl run

I love that there's a bunch of us who do these. I'm probably gonna do mine after Tynion's last issue comes out on Wednesday. Really hoping he sticks the landing and makes it a celebratory re-reading.

The n52 Batgirl was actually quite dark for roughl the first 3 years.

One of the most common criticisms I've seen of the book was that it was overly grimdark. Based on the little I've seen, that sounds about right.

[frostedemma]

I honestly thought the trend was child assassins though not characters suffering from trauma because it's not a new thing since you have Jessica Jones and Carol Danvers who preceded Kate Bishop, Surge, Cassandra Cain, and X-23.

Jessica Jones does not precede cass cain jess was created in 2001 while cass was in 1999. Cass batgirl run started a year before alias started. Carol Danvers suffered from trauma but its never been explored the way it has for characters like cass, jess, laura and etc

[frostedemma]

The n52 Batgirl was actually quite dark for roughl the first 3 years.

Damian seems for me an other archetype than Cass. Due to him being a bratty child. And he has also several copies (like Emiko or Hitgirl).


And I would suspect that both existed probably first in Manga, even if I can't give an example (I'm not a big manga fan).

n52 batgirl was dark because the circumstances of gotham was dark but babs was infantilised and had all the development she had during her oracle stint erased