Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Galerion]

Yep. She may not be the "old" Cass that we all love, but so far she has been presented as a very highly skilled martial artist who is above everyone she has fought so far.

While Im definitely not a guru when it comes to her I get the feeling this seems to be a back-to-the-roots approach though. I mean the only word she said so far was "Mother".

[gwangung]

Yep. She may not be the "old" Cass that we all love, but so far she has been presented as a very highly skilled martial artist who is above everyone she has fought so far.

She's at least in the general vicinity, which is good.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Anyone have any thoughts about Cass' reintro thus far?

Surprised that she doesn't apparently have any scars, but that may change

[The Whovian]

Anyone have any thoughts about Cass' reintro thus far?

Surprised that she doesn't apparently have any scars, but that may change

She seems to be almost the same as the old Cass except the old Cass would have kicked the Prophet's butt in less than 10 seconds.

[JaggedFel]

Come on I dont care what they say Karate Kid is a metahuman. He is beatng Kryptonian Level foes with his bare hands and no Kryptonite.

[heyevaxx]

@JaggedFel
I agree that meta-human designation is hard to avoid when feats become so inhuman. Like in Batgirl v1-34 2003-01 when she travels maybe 6-10 feet in the time it takes the bullet to go about 3-6 feet. That would put her speed at over 1000 miles per hour. This is the only speed feet of Cass' that I have a hard time buying while still leaving her without the meta-gene.

@ Dark Knight1047
Amen to that! In the old days with her peak fighting skill, Orph would not have kicked her in the first encounter nor would have surprised her and grabbed her from behind in their second fight. And yeh, she'd nerve struck him or done some kind of "just enough" hit to put him down. On her first attack.

But that's something I'm actually kind of liking in NewCass: she's a little more "reasonable" fighting wise. I think even her new level could be better than the whole Batfam including Bruce, but maybe not as much better as old Cass. And I'm fine with that. If that's what it takes to make editorial (*cough*, DiDio, *cough*) more comfortable keeping her in the Gotham universe, I'm all for it.

I mean as it is some BRE readers - in particular some Grayson fans - did not enjoy Cassandra's fight with Dick. So I don't want DC to push it. Show new Cass as an awesomely fast fighter with body reading but with a default level that allows a really good fighter to touch her and it not be a story point like in the old days. And Cass has been hit/touched a lot in BRE:

1) Dick's right hand closed on her neck in BRE01, maybe she let that happen so she could throw him
2) Orphan kicked a door that knocked Cass over or his kick of the door also hit her
3) It's hard to tell but it looks like the back of Cass' suit got slashed by Hood. There were also some blood drops in the air but not on Cass or in later panels.
4) Jason grabbed Cass' neck/collar with his left hand just before Grayson intervened
5) Orphan grabbed Cass from behind and then threw her

@The Cool Thatguy
Yeh, I was looking for scars when she was shown being pleased with her loose, black dress. There were none to be seen but she wasn't always drawn with them back in the day.

I'm real happy so far with her re-introduction. I was guessing she'd be more violent (e.g. arm chopping) and her relationships/sexuality would get explored (e.g. hand holding). It's the New52 and everything is ampped up.

But I'm pleased that she's only said one word, Mother, 3 times in 7 issues. I hope they don't rush her learning to talk/read/write. I do wonder why Harp didn't jump out of her seat when Cass said Mother at the ballet. Maybe Harp didn't hear her over the orchestra.

With her fighting and mostly muteness established, they did a great job in BRE07 showing Cass emote:
1) happy about her dress and necklace
2) empathetic toward Harp over her dress code concerns
3) wonder and joy at the dancing
4) generosity offering her food to Harp

They did a great job is mostly Genevieve Valentine rocking the house. Her dialog, for everyone, was good to great. And the 2 pager at the ballet with Cassie's reactiona and the hand touching/holding and Harp's dialog were the best 2 pages in the series IMO. Too bad Genevieve can't write most of the rest of the series!

I'm real interested to see how the Harp/Cass thing develops. I think Harper is definitely attracted to Cass but what she feels, who knows? I think her communication and socialization issues will really make for a good story. Plus, getting Steph involved in Cass' life is something else to look forward to.

So far, so good, all things considered. I can't wait for the next issue!

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Black Cat?
I like Cassandra, and the suit on her is better than it was on Huntress.
I like her more as Batgirl, that is.

[Carabas]

@JaggedFel
I agree that meta-human designation is hard to avoid when feats become so inhuman. Like in Batgirl v1-34 2003-01 when she travels maybe 6-10 feet in the time it takes the bullet to go about 3-6 feet. That would put her speed at over 1000 miles per hour. This is the only speed feet of Cass' that I have a hard time buying while still leaving her without the meta-gene.

I have always taken it as a given that what counts as superhuman in a superhero universe and what counts as superhuman in our universe are not exactly similar.

All of the so-called peak humans like Batman, Nightwing etcetera routinely pull stunts that nobody could possibly do no matter how well they are trained.

[Agent Z]

I have always taken it as a given that what counts as superhuman in a superhero universe and what counts as superhuman in our universe are not exactly similar.

All of the so-called peak humans like Batman, Nightwing etcetera routinely pull stunts that nobody could possibly do no matter how well they are trained.

Very much agreed. The Bat family's feats have always stretched suspension of disbelief.

[Carabas]

Very much agreed. The Bat family's feats have always stretched suspension of disbelief.

Not just the Bat-crew.
The Hawkeyes, the Green Arrows, The Punisher, Echo, ,Deadshot,practically all of the non-powered Flash Rogues... even SHIELD agents like Coulson, May, Fury...

[Agent Z]

Not just the Bat-crew.
The Hawkeyes, the Green Arrows, The Punisher, Echo, ,Deadshot,practically all of the non-powered Flash Rogues... even SHIELD agents like Coulson, May, Fury...

Wait what have Coulson and May done that strains credibility so much?

[heyevaxx]

@Carabas, @Agent Z
I completely agree with:
"what counts as superhuman in a superhero universe and what counts as superhuman in our universe are not exactly similar"
"The Bat family's feats have always stretched suspension of disbelief."

But I'm not as big a fan of the other characters that were listed.

And Cass frequently lands in X vs Y debates and her feats are dissected in excruciating detail.

I still feel that particular feat, no matter the medium and the standards around it, is too much for a non-alien, non-meta, at least for me. I'm pretty good with all her other feats despite many of them being beyond human. This one though... I think it's because I can look at the page and do the math.

Btw, I really love the character of Cassandra Cain and this single feat critique isn't a knock on her in the least.

What do you guys think of the rest of my post and the main question:

Anyone have any thoughts about Cass' reintro thus far?

[Carabas]

Wait what have Coulson and May done that strains credibility so much?

Nothing that strains credibility, but plenty of stuff that's just not happening within the confines of our reality.

For May, practically every fight she's ever been in.
For Coulson, let's just start with "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer"...

[heyevaxx]

[Holy Cow, no Cass appreciation posts since last year?! Eek, this must be fixed!]

Cass has been "blue eyed" wrongly quite a few times in BRE. It's been really jarring for big fans like me who are used to her *brown* eyes from years gone by. The DC team has tweeted that it will be fixed in the collected edition.

Can anyone confirm if the BRE v1 TPB covering 01-12 has Cass' eyes color corrected to brown? Check BRE01 when she fights Dick and the last page of BRE12.

Here are two examples of BRE using blue for Cass' eyes compared with Tumblr fanedits with her eyes fixed to brown:

BRE01.eyes-ORIGINAL.blue-FANEDIT.brown << BRE01 when Cass is body reading Dick


BRE12.eyes-ORIGINAL.blue-FANEDIT.brown << BRE12 last page

[bat_girl_cc]

Come on I dont care what they say Karate Kid is a metahuman. He is beatng Kryptonian Level foes with his bare hands and no Kryptonite.

Did he now?...

- Batgirl #3 "batgirl meets meta" - after a long fight, Cass finally puts down a meta-human that had made short work out of Batman;
- Batgirl #18 - Cass dodges several bullets after they were fired in front of Tim Drake who can't belive what he's seeing;
- Batgirl #33 - Cass ko's a meta-human with one single punch;
- Batgirl #34 - Cass literally out-paces a bullet, as she beats the projectil to its mark;
- Batgirl #45 - Cass easly puts down a meta-human that throwing cars around like if they were ping-pong balls, with one pressure-point;
- Batgirl #49 - 50 drugged people were beating Robin down, Cass came in and put them all to sleep in a few seconds, it was so fast that Robin didn't even saw anything;
- Batgirl anual #1 - Cass runs as a blur;
- Batman and the outsiders #8 - Cass solos the chinese military;
- Supergirl #63 - "the best medicine" - Supergirl had just got stomped by a bizarro version of Supergirl, Cass came in and defeated Bizarro Supergirl easly in close-combat by dodging all of her attacks and caused her to basically eletrocute herself.
- Superboy #85 - "silent, but deadly" - Cass broke through Superboy's force field with a smack to his face, and he stated that no one had ever did it before.
- Batgirl #41 - Superboy gets ragdolled by a skyscrapper sized monster, and Cass gets grabbed by the monster and just punches him hard and he colapses to the ground.
- Supergirl 2007 special - Cass overwhelmed Supergirl and could have killed her, but some plot-device cristals randomly came out of Supergirls body and stabbed Cass, although on that instance Supergirl was weakned by the red solar radiation swords that Cass was wearing.
Anyway, there are much more exemples...although, i have no problem admitting that KK would beat Cass, based on consistency, the guy is just insane feats-wise, defently the best hand-to-hand fighter in comics of all time.