Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Assam]

Personally I found Cass's involvement in the last arc lacking, she was mostly there just to punch things. There wasn't enough "meat" there in the form of character interactions and such.

That's a fair take. I didn't see her as mostly there to punch things (That was her role in the first two arcs frustratingly), as she really only had successful fights in the last two issues. Her entire story in #950 (minus a certain line about Harper) showed a great understanding of the character IMO, and her arc was well executed, her interactions with Christine in#955 being a far greater highlight than the fight in the same issue, ditto for her interactions with Shiva in the following issue. As I said, putting most key traits on display. Most. Some things are still missing. But for the first time in over a decade, this really felt like the same girl who could both enjoy a game of roof tag, and who was more than willing to take a bullet for a thug she was fighting. He even got the detail about Cass being a total slob right, so he clearly DOES know about her more quirky traits.

I do agree with you about character interaction though as far as the main cast is concerned. Because of how the arc was structured (Plotting was DEFINITELY this arc's weak point), JPV and Luke were taken out from the start, Kate despite being involved longer I don't think spoke one word to Cass, and her interaction with Bruce did more for his characterization than hers (Though their "fight" in #953 was still a really good scene), and while the Cass and Basil friendship is great, we really didn't get any new insights into them from their scene in this. (Although the fact that they outright stated Cass is the only one who likes him, and doesn't just see him as an ally does say something about her in my eyes.)

We'll find out in time, but as I said, I think we've gotten to a point where she'll be able to interact more freely with the rest of the team now, and I hope we get things like her dry wit, her intelligence, and general playful nature.

That all said, what I don't want to see for a LONG time is another emotional moment with a Cass hug. They've mostly been nice moments but my god have there been a lot. Someone on Tumblr compiled all the Cass hug panels together, and the total number is ridiculous.

[SneakyLookingSort]

That all said, what I don't want to see for a LONG time is another emotional moment with a Cass hug. They've mostly been nice moments but my god have there been a lot. Someone on Tumblr compiled all the Cass hug panels together, and the total number is ridiculous.

Yeah that I must agree. Seems like Tynion has trouble coming up with good emotional moments with Cass.

[Caivu]

Well, over on the DC forum, Cass and Clayface made it to the current popularity tournament final, which is amusing since they've recently become friends.

[Sharpandpointies]

As for the costume, I actually like the bandaged arms. However, as a whole, it they'd just made it more "Bat-like", I would have preferred something more like what she wore here.

Late to the party, but agree with both of your comments. I actually like it a little non-bat-like.

[Assam]

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...06176400859139

DON'T TEASE ME LIKE THIS JAMES!

Yes I know this would be almost impossible to do with Babs in her current state, but I don't care. Just let them KNOW each other!

[Rogue Star]

Attachment 49941

Absolutely Gorgeous new art! Drawn by Stanley Lau.

I think I saw this in a dream once.... or thrice!!! ( * o*)

So gorgeous!

[The Whovian]

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...06176400859139

DON'T TEASE ME LIKE THIS JAMES!

Yes I know this would be almost impossible to do with Babs in her current state, but I don't care. Just let them KNOW each other!

That would be cool, if Babs was still Oracle. But I fear that Cass would be treated like wall flower in any pairing with Babs as Batgirl.

[millernumber1]

That would be cool, if Babs was still Oracle. But I fear that Cass would be treated like wall flower in any pairing with Babs as Batgirl.

I think this is a very important point. But I think, if written by the right author (I think Larson could do a decent job, though I'm not impressed with how she wrote Batgirl with Supergirl in the annual), it could still be really good. I quite like Babs's relationship with Steph during the n52 Burnside run - a good mix of mentor and fun. But Steph's relationship with Babs is a bit less fraught than with Cass, I think.

[Assam]

I think this is a very important point. But I think, if written by the right author (I think Larson could do a decent job, though I'm not impressed with how she wrote Batgirl with Supergirl in the annual), it could still be really good. I quite like Babs's relationship with Steph during the n52 Burnside run - a good mix of mentor and fun. But Steph's relationship with Babs is a bit less fraught than with Cass, I think.

The big difference is that back in the good continuity, as her mentor, Babs was like a big sister to Steph. Even with the de-aging of Babs and the changing of her personality, that was something that could still be captured, albeit with some changes, and according to you, it was done so pretty well.

With Cass though, yeah, there's no getting around it. Babs and Cass had a mother-daughter relationship, and giving them anything else would ring false. Even if Babs had her old personality, which I doubt will happen any time soon, the age difference between them now couldn't be more than 9 or 10 years. This is one of the things I want most back, but unless Babs is made back into the great character she once was, I don't see how it could be pulled of successfully.

[millernumber1]

The big difference is that back in the good continuity, as her mentor, Babs was like a big sister to Steph. Even with the de-aging of Babs and the changing of her personality, that was something that could still be captured, albeit with some changes, and according to you, it was done so pretty well.

With Cass though, yeah, there's no getting around it. Babs and Cass had a mother-daughter relationship, and giving them anything else would ring false. Even if Babs had her old personality, which I doubt will happen any time soon, the age difference between them now couldn't be more than 9 or 10 years. This is one of the things I want most back, but unless Babs is made back into the great character she once was, I don't see how it could be pulled of successfully.

Yes, exactly. Less fraught.

Babs is currently 21, and Cass is about 16. So that's 5 years. Which is really, really close, and Babs has so far really not shown a mature mother type relationship or tendency even in Birds of Prey, which is the closest we've gotten to "real" Babs (Oracle) that we've gotten in YEARS.

I really, really wish and hope that the Bensons would get Cass and/or Steph as a guest star for Birds of Prey. That would at least be a foot in the door.

[Assam]

Oh yeah, something else Tynion mentioned during his Q&A on Twitter last night: He still thinks 'Orphan' is a good name, despite the fact that no one really cares for it.

Someone asked why she wasn't using Black Bat, and he said that he felt 'Orphan' spoke more to her character, as has been said in the past. The way it was explained in 'Tec #950, the name does make sense. Or rather, it did. Thematically, even if the name sounded good, which I think most of us agree it doesn't, it no longer makes sense for her to call herself that.

I've been expecting a new name, or more realistically her just pulling a Kitty Pryde and having her real name be what she mainly goes by as of the next issue, but Tynion added something I'm not sure he's said before.

Namely that he feels that calling her Orphan is a way to carve out a legacy for Cass all her own, implying that yes, she will be keeping the name. Oye.

[millernumber1]

Oh yeah, something else Tynion mentioned during his Q&A on Twitter last night: He still thinks 'Orphan' is a good name, despite the fact that no one really cares for it.

Someone asked why she wasn't using Black Bat, and he said that he felt 'Orphan' spoke more to her character, as has been said in the past. The way it was explained in 'Tec #950, the name does make sense. Or rather, it did. Thematically, even if the name sounded good, which I think most of us agree it doesn't, it no longer makes sense for her to call herself that.

I've been expecting a new name, or more realistically her just pulling a Kitty Pryde and having her real name be what she mainly goes by as of the next issue, but Tynion added something I'm not sure he's said before.

Namely that he feels that calling her Orphan is a way to carve out a legacy for Cass all her own, implying that yes, she will be keeping the name. Oye.

It's an interesting thing. I personally think that the idea of a Bat character carving out a legacy outside of Batman's shadow is a bit silly, since the most successful characters from the Batfamily are always recognizable as Batman characters (Nightwing, Batgirl, and Robin). So I personally think you should just embrace the fact that your character has a connection to the best selling character of all DC, and work to make your stories emphasize how awesome they are, and be great stories in and of themselves.

Of course, there's also the problem that even if you have an awesome story, such as Cass fighting Shiva, or Steph's Batgirl run, because of the vagaries of editorial or continuity, unless they fundamentally shape the universe (The Killing Joke, War Games, various Crises, Knightfall, RIP), they're still not guaranteed a spot in fan memory.

I really like Tynion and his writing, but I think that approach to giving his family character their own solos is fundamentally flawed - I firmly think Cass and Steph have more of a chance to get solos if they are more connected to Batman and his mission, not less.

[Assam]

The Bat-Proposal is making me now realize that I should have asked Tynion if he wants a Cass adoption...probably wouldn't have answered that one anyway.

Regardless, Fanart: The Cute and the Cool

Chocolate and Waffles.jpg

cass jason 2.jpg (Are these two ever gonna have meaningful interaction? XD)

cass watercolor.jpg

[Assam]

takara cass.jpg

More Takara Cass! (Seriously, just put the man on a damn solo!)

Also, I've recently realized that Takara is the only person who has drawn both my favorite DC hero and my favorite Marvel hero in professionally published comics.

[Frontier]

Maybe it's just because it's Takara, but that looks a heck of a lot better then her Orphan look in my opinion .