Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Lorendiac]

To some extent, you played into DC's hands because then they could point to low sales as a reason not to use Cass anymore.

Which was the main reason I was sorely tempted -- every month for six months! -- to buy the mini. But my conscience kept getting the better of me -- I didn't want DC to think "Cass as written by Beechen" was the sort of thing that I, and others, would keep buying indefinitely.

And let's face it: If DC, despite the backlash from the "Robin OYL" issues about "Cass has gone psycho," still went ahead and let Beechen write her again, didn't that prove that nothing I could possibly do (such as buying her mini) would persuade them to let Cass be written in new solo adventures by a writer who knew and cared about her original characterization?

Frankly, even before "New 52" kicked in, I was thinking (and saying online): "I think the best thing we can hope for in the next few years is that DC's current policy-makers will basically forget about Cassandra Cain. At some time in the distant future, perhaps there will be a new editor who's willing to let her be well-written by a scripter who actually has a clue about what originally made the character appealing."

[catbatfan]

This regime wants to erase Cassandra from our collective memory. She needs to be back NOW before she ends up like Linda Danvers or Connor Hawke or Kate Spencer. The longer they go without giving us Cass, the smaller her fanbase gets until finally there is only a teensy, tiny minority of rabid Cass fans still asking about her. We need her back under this regime, unfortunately, before she is made redundant and irrelevant.

[ceroxide]

She needs to be back NOW before she ends up like Linda Danvers or Connor Hawke or Kate Spencer.

Who are they?

[catbatfan]

Who are they?

Exactly my point.

Linda Danvers is the Peter David-created Supergirl of the 90s (a MUCH better character than Kara Zor-El).
Connor Hawke is the Chuck Dixon-created Green Arrow of the 90s (Oliver Queen's son and also a much better character than Ollie).
Kate Spencer is the Marc Andreyko-created Manhunter of the 00s.

Terrific characters, all gone. :-/

[Lorendiac]

This regime wants to erase Cassandra from our collective memory. She needs to be back NOW before she ends up like Linda Danvers or Connor Hawke or Kate Spencer. The longer they go without giving us Cass, the smaller her fanbase gets until finally there is only a teensy, tiny minority of rabid Cass fans still asking about her. We need her back under this regime, unfortunately, before she is made redundant and irrelevant.

You make it sound as if there's a hard-and-fast deadline. In other words: "If Cassandra Cain goes a certain number of years without being featured in a new story, she will permanently slip away into Comic Book Limbo and never be heard from again. It's a Natural Law of the universe. The only way for her to avoid this dread fate is for her to be recycled, even in a bad way, in one of the comics coming out from DC in the near future."

I simply don't see why you are making such a sweeping assumption. Lots of DC characters have been in "Comic Book Limbo" for decades at a time, doing nothing in any new stories (or maybe just showing up in a supporting role once in a blue moon), and then have made comebacks when someone at DC pitched an idea for a revival, and managed to get some editors to green-light his concept. It didn't matter how long the character had been offstage; it only mattered how much support there was for that character, right then and there.

For instance, I once checked and found that J'onn J'onnz, aka The Martian Manhunter, a founding member of the Silver Age JLA, appeared in just 2 issues of the original "Justice League of America" title during the entire decade of the 1970s (and a few appearances in other comic books of the 70s, but never as a "steady back-up feature" or "regular member of a team's active roster" in any comic book title of that era). Obviously, the League could get along just fine without him. For all practical purposes, it seems he'd been written off as redundant and irrelevant by the guys who were writing and editing the JLA book (and lots of other DC comic books) at that time. But in the 1980s he made a successful comeback as a regular member of the Justice League roster, both in Detroit and then in the Giffen/DeMatteis era, and in the 1990s he had a solo monthly title for the first time in his career. His mostly skipping the 1970s didn't really hurt him any in the long run; there was no built-in "deadline" or "expiration date."

On a similar note, when Roy Thomas was writing his "All-Star Squadron" book in the 1980s (along with the "Infinity Inc." title and the later "Young All-Stars" book), he ended up dusting off a bunch of heroes and villains who had basically been languishing in Comic Book Limbo ever since the Golden Age. Some of them had probably gone over 30 years at a stretch without any new appearances, but they still looked pretty good when they were properly handled!

[John Venus]

If she can't survive on a solo book then put her on a team book. Putting her on the Outsiders was a good move, imo.

Who are they?

Exactly my point.

There will always be the next Mark Waid, Kurt Kusiek and Roy Thomas to dredge up old forgotten characters.

[godisawesome]

Don't forget that Cass came back from limbo once before and her return was heartily welcomed, or that the current Batcreators have expressed an interest in doing it again. My personal prediction is that Cass will be the next to return after Steph, probably in the sequel to Eternal.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Exactly my point.

Linda Danvers is the Peter David-created Supergirl of the 90s (a MUCH better character than Kara Zor-El).
Connor Hawke is the Chuck Dixon-created Green Arrow of the 90s (Oliver Queen's son and also a much better character than Ollie).
Kate Spencer is the Marc Andreyko-created Manhunter of the 00s.

Terrific characters, all gone. :-/

That's not true.

They brought Connor Hawk back in Earth 2 (Batman vs. Superman XXXVVVIII).

They made him white, he was pretty much an extra and then they killed him.

But they didn't forget him!

[Punisher007]

Plus, Linda Danvers a better character than Kara Zor-El. Yeah, really cannot agree with that one.

[Lorendiac]

Plus, Linda Danvers a better character than Kara Zor-El. Yeah, really cannot agree with that one.

Well, if we make it more specific -- for instance, "Linda Danvers as written by Peter David is a MUCH better character than Kara Zor-El as written by Jeph Loeb" -- then I could go along with that!

[Badou]

Exactly my point.

Linda Danvers is the Peter David-created Supergirl of the 90s (a MUCH better character than Kara Zor-El).
Connor Hawke is the Chuck Dixon-created Green Arrow of the 90s (Oliver Queen's son and also a much better character than Ollie).
Kate Spencer is the Marc Andreyko-created Manhunter of the 00s.

Terrific characters, all gone. :-/

Connor Hawk is back, sort of. They made the archer from Earth-2 Connor. Although that wasn't the original plan. The new creative team decided to do that after Robinson left.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Connor Hawk is back, sort of. They made the archer from Earth-2 Connor. Although that wasn't the original plan. The new creative team decided to do that after Robinson left.

He was...*cough*

[Malachi]

You make it sound as if there's a hard-and-fast deadline. In other words: "If Cassandra Cain goes a certain number of years without being featured in a new story, she will permanently slip away into Comic Book Limbo and never be heard from again. It's a Natural Law of the universe. The only way for her to avoid this dread fate is for her to be recycled, even in a bad way, in one of the comics coming out from DC in the near future."

I simply don't see why you are making such a sweeping assumption. Lots of DC characters have been in "Comic Book Limbo" for decades at a time, doing nothing in any new stories (or maybe just showing up in a supporting role once in a blue moon), and then have made comebacks when someone at DC pitched an idea for a revival, and managed to get some editors to green-light his concept. It didn't matter how long the character had been offstage; it only mattered how much support there was for that character, right then and there.

For instance, I once checked and found that J'onn J'onnz, aka The Martian Manhunter, a founding member of the Silver Age JLA, appeared in just 2 issues of the original "Justice League of America" title during the entire decade of the 1970s (and a few appearances in other comic books of the 70s, but never as a "steady back-up feature" or "regular member of a team's active roster" in any comic book title of that era). Obviously, the League could get along just fine without him. For all practical purposes, it seems he'd been written off as redundant and irrelevant by the guys who were writing and editing the JLA book (and lots of other DC comic books) at that time. But in the 1980s he made a successful comeback as a regular member of the Justice League roster, both in Detroit and then in the Giffen/DeMatteis era, and in the 1990s he had a solo monthly title for the first time in his career. His mostly skipping the 1970s didn't really hurt him any in the long run; there was no built-in "deadline" or "expiration date."

On a similar note, when Roy Thomas was writing his "All-Star Squadron" book in the 1980s (along with the "Infinity Inc." title and the later "Young All-Stars" book), he ended up dusting off a bunch of heroes and villains who had basically been languishing in Comic Book Limbo ever since the Golden Age. Some of them had probably gone over 30 years at a stretch without any new appearances, but they still looked pretty good when they were properly handled!

Certainly there is a curve that decreases for every year not being used. Eventually it levels out or at least decreases so little that's it hardly noticeable. Still it's easier, much easier to bring back a character within a certain span of years. It doesn't mean that it's impossible later on. It's just wiser to do it before it gets harder. Always pending on a good story though.

The current regime isn't like it was back in the days of infinity inc. First of it's much more selective in what part of DC history that gets to come back. It's no coincidence that all of the mentioned characters(Connor, Linda, ect) isn't used. Why Donna, Wally and other characters have gotten the shaft. It's a company wide policy that's really doing more damage then good. Second, the market might not be able to sustain a series the way it could before. Infinity Inc came during a time when comics in general sold more.

I rather be a fan that gets good Cass stories in a near future where the name of the team is less relevant for sales then it risks being in a more distant future. Waiting for a Waid is a risky business, in no way a certainty.

[catbatfan]

Connor Hawk is back, sort of. They made the archer from Earth-2 Connor. Although that wasn't the original plan. The new creative team decided to do that after Robinson left.

That's not Connor. Connor is tri-racial. The character appearing in Earth-2 calling himself Connor Hawke has been whitewashed.

[catbatfan]

That's not true.

They brought Connor Hawk back in Earth 2 (Batman vs. Superman XXXVVVIII).

They made him white, he was pretty much an extra and then they killed him.

But they didn't forget him!

Wow, they killed him off? I was going to start reading Earth-2 until I found out he had been whitewashed. Glad I didn't start.