Lamest Marvel Superheroines?

[theshow07]

Except for that one time she took a bat to the Chameleon, I don't recall many villains jobbing to MJ. And Peter made the deal.

yeah i read omd three times mary jane did made the deal

[Michael P]

MJ beating the Chameleon with a bat so hard he had brain damage is one of the greatest things that ever happened in comics, and I will not hear it spoken against.

[AcesX1X]

MJ beating the Chameleon with a bat so hard he had brain damage is one of the greatest things that ever happened in comics, and I will not hear it spoken against.

you don't happen to have a scan of that do you?

[VJ.]

The new "Ms. Marvel", pretty much everything she appears in is cringeworthy. She's the female Sam Alexander more or less.

She's nothing like Sam - I like both characters, but they're very different. If you think Kamala & Sam are particularly similar, you've not been reading one of the books.
Also, do you mind expanding on the problem you perceive both characters to have?

Guess I'm glad I'm not reading Ms. Marvel, then. I've read only a few issues of Nova, and Sam gets on my nerves big time.

You're missing out, not only is it a great book that's both a critical & commercial success, but IMO it's currently the best book Marvel is putting out.

[theshow07]

Like they killed the watcher to make nick fury the new one just so sam Jackson can take his seat-_-

really show proof me that he the Director of Shield from i remember he just a agent

[Of Atlantis]

really show proof me that he the Director of Shield from i remember he just a agent

Fury Sr. hasn't been director in a long time. And it's fairly obvious they created a new role for Sr. so that Jr. could be known as the only active Nick Fury left. They literally chained Sr. to the moon to make a point of this.

[Fordel]

I find almost all 'sibling/children/clone of hero' type characters to be tiresome. It's almost always disappointing in the end, where the successor never gets out of the originals shadow and wouldn't even be relevant if they weren't X's kid or whatever. It's almost never a satisfying situation for either the fans of said derivatives or the folks who are indifferent to the characters. Then you have the fans of the originals who take the derivatives as some kind of attack on the original and that's just unnecessary at best and down right toxic at it's worst. See the endless stream of Summers and/or Greys floating around as an example.



The other thing that I just sort of roll my eyes at, are the characters with super-duper-omega-cosmic-god powers. Oh boy, another person with the ability to bend reality to their will, how exciting. Once you give a person those kind of powers, you no longer have a character, you have a walking talking plot device. Scarlet Witch for example, maybe she was a decent character at one point in history, I don't know. In the general modern age though, she isn't a character, she is a catalyst. Like if the mutant gene is Marvel's generic way of giving people super powers without needing to figure out a origin story, then the Scarlet Witch is now Marvel's generic way of creating alternate realities and 'what-if' situations. It's again, at best unsatisfying and at worst, downright toxic, both in and out of universe.


Then you have the string of god-power characters that are utterly forgettable because they NEED to be forgettable. They are so powerful that EVERY situation that ever arise could be solved by them, which is like the antithesis of tension. Really you don't even need ultimate god-powers for this, most top end telepaths can generate the same effect. Where they can diffuse just about any situation instantly, remove any mystery or tension. The only time you have any kind of conflict is when telepaths face off against each other and then it's time for more nosebleed battles as characters stand around and strain. Or maybe we get to play 'can we remove the anti-telepathy helmet' mini game! Like a healthy Xavier or any of the Grey's... they are just 'I-Win' buttons nine times out of ten and require some kind of random contrivance to actually generate any kind of conflict.

[SXVA]

In my opinion.

Rogue is hardly "absurdly built up". She gained her popularity and earned her fans by being tough, scrappy, loyal and lovable. Folks love to root for the under dog. She is different from other lady heroes in that it was her personality and redemption that made her not her looks or being the love object of all the men. The lady heroes of the 60's were often put on pedestals and desired by all the men so we could see their value as objects. Rogue was made in the 80's by Claremont who gave her flaws, obstacles, and fight. It is no secret Rogue is incredibly popular among lady fans. She is easy to look up to and relate to. IMHO

That's not the way it feels to me and i see it, however... and i have to go by my perception in what i support and enjoy, and find interesting, etc.

It's not a character i've connected with and is on the list of "try hard" characters where i feel it tries too hard to build them up as awesome, imo you shouldn't have to be told over and over how awesome something is, if it were awesome it simply would be awesome.... a character like Spider-Man for example can come in and shoot a web and make a baddie trip and fall and fade out while others do the rest, he doesn't need to show off or be constantly built up because he's awesome... whereas Rogue will steal someone else's powers and then get all cocky and throw out some "tough/badass" dialogue and rip a plane in half with her bare hands because "remember people, she's badass".

Even in the movies i thought the character was lame.

And i'm pretty sure she's been the romantic interest of a few Mutants, although i don't necessarily see that as a bad thing... i have no issue with a Female actually having Feminine qualities and/or being interested in romance, etc.

Also, there's a number of great Female characters out there in which Females can look up to, not like Rogue's the only one... but i'm not stopping anyone else from liking her, i just don't like her.

Like i said previously, the characters can be anything the creators will them to be... i'm sure there are some interpretations of the character that are good, and stories involving her that her good, etc.... but overall where the character is concerned, the creators didn't do a good enough job in making me a believer.

[Fordel]

It's not a character i've connected with and is on the list of "try hard" characters where i feel it tries too hard to build them up as awesome, imo you shouldn't have to be told over and over how awesome something is, if it were awesome it simply would be awesome.... a character like Spider-Man for example can come in and shoot a web and make a baddie trip and fall and fade out while others do the rest, he doesn't need to show off or be constantly built up because he's awesome... whereas Rogue will steal someone else's powers and then get all cocky and throw out some "tough/badass" dialogue and rip a plane in half with her bare hands because "remember people, she's badass".

I don't feel that's accurate. A very good chunk of Spider-Man related stories seem to amount to, Spider-Man the chosen one! Only he can save us! With bonus quips! He gets just as much "remember people, he's amazing!" as anyone else does, it's just easy to overlook it if you are already invested. If you like a character, that stuff is just confirmation of things you already 'know'. "Yes, he is amazing, that is CORRECT!".

[FlashingSabre]

Hope was fine.

If anyone, BEAST treated Cyclops like crap for hypocritical reasons.

"What's this Scott?! You're running X-Force?! I'm so offended, I'm gonna shout at you at Nightcrawler's funeral about this! You deserve to burn in hell!"
"What's this Wolverine? You're running X-Force out of a school? Eh. That's fine by me."

I hated Beast ever since that moment.

Beast is my third favorite x-men. I don't think anyone has written him well since Scott Lobdell.

[jen]

I don't feel that's accurate. A very good chunk of Spider-Man related stories seem to amount to, Spider-Man the chosen one! Only he can save us! With bonus quips! He gets just as much "remember people, he's amazing!" as anyone else does, it's just easy to overlook it if you are already invested. If you like a character, that stuff is just confirmation of things you already 'know'. "Yes, he is amazing, that is CORRECT!".

I agree. That is a very generalized critique. I think to make a character lame is to be silly or relatively universally disliked. Icons like She-Hulk, Rogue, Storm, Jean Grey, Ms. Marvel etc will have their haterz but they are far from lame.

[theshow07]

Fury Sr. hasn't been director in a long time. And it's fairly obvious they created a new role for Sr. so that Jr. could be known as the only active Nick Fury left. They literally chained Sr. to the moon to make a point of this.

no i was talking about nick fury jr not sr

[SXVA]

I don't feel that's accurate. A very good chunk of Spider-Man related stories seem to amount to, Spider-Man the chosen one! Only he can save us! With bonus quips! He gets just as much "remember people, he's amazing!" as anyone else does, it's just easy to overlook it if you are already invested. If you like a character, that stuff is just confirmation of things you already 'know'. "Yes, he is amazing, that is CORRECT!".

Were those in group scenarios? Because from my experiences usually in group situations Spider-Man isn't that person. Yeah, he can be a bit of a sarcastic ass sometimes aha but i don't recall many group situations i've seen where he was the "try hard" and i don't see it coming from an arrogant place most of the time. I also don't feel constantly reminded how awesome Spider-Man is time and again, which i'm not nearly as invested as some Marvel fans.

In one's solo book, you would expect this on a certain level and to a certain extent and so i'm mainly basing it on group/team situations.

In my experiences with Marvel, which... i admit isn't as knowledgeable as with DC, i haven't read every story like some hardcore fans... nevertheless in my experiences two of the biggest try hards in the Marvel U have been Rogue and Captain America, and they're not coincidentally two characters who are among those i dislike the most., and i can only go by my experiences and how i feel. [Mainly based on a group/team basis/dynamic and Rogue much less so than the Captain... but no one in the multiverse could compare with Steve Rogers on that anyway].

The question was put forth, which Female hero do you find the lamest... i answered the question from my perspective. I don't see why someone even needs to explain their answers, it's personal to them and how they feel but... fair enough, i explained what i feel about the character. Not sure what more can be said. In my experiences, the creators in relation to myself for whatever reason haven't made me believe in the character and there remains a disconnect, furthermore i feel that way about the character being arrogant/cocky and a try hard.

[Mark]

Carol was injured not murdered by Rogue. Heck she was back up and stronger than ever by the end of Avengers Annual #10. Further, it help reset all the awful that happened to her prior. She was reborn as Binary and freaking amazing. She owes that to the Rogue incident. It was a story catalyst for both ladies and that is the genius of Claremont!

However, hating Rogue and finding her a lame inconsequential character are kinda different. Rogue is actually pretty original. Her origins, redemption, power set, all became iconic and completely original and new. You may not like her, but she is just not a lame one off character in my opinion.

Rogue knocked her out and threw off of a bridge to die in cold San Francisco waters and then kept part of Carol's mind for years after that. The attack was deliberate, malicious (by definition it was attempted murder) and it earned Rogue a place in the X-men and Carol got nothing out of it but pain. Take away her absorption of Carol's powers and personality and Rogue's still a second rate villain in Mystique's brotherhood. She's earned her current status at the expense of Carol's suffering. Carol for a time could visit her mother but could not feel any love for the woman because Rogue took that away from her. Claremont threw Carol away to give Rogue a storyline in my opinion and she never really recovered from that.

Then again once they made Carol a hypocritical fascist in cw and it's aftermath I really stopped liking her and then they had Carol steal Billy Batson's name so that DC couldn't use it and gave her an ugly costume. So really I'm not a fan of her anymore. But while I was I considered (and still do) Rogue as just a thief who got very lucky and bought her way to redemption at the cost of Carol's pain and suffering.

[SXVA]

Alright, i'll tell you what....

In the spirit of keeping an open mind,

If a big Rogue fan feels like it, tell me one of the best story arcs involving Rogue, and i'll make an attempt to seek it out and read it with an open mind and give it a chance to change my perspective.