Does anyone else dislike All Star Superman?

[ekrolo2]

So by the name of the thread alone I'm pretty much painting a target on my back but after reading it I feel the need to ask, does anyone else really not like this story?

For a certain section of the Superman fanbase, I understand perfectly why it's one of, if not the best Superman stories of all time. I am not one of these people however or else we wouldn't be making this thread.

All Star Superman pretty much embodies not only some of the things I hate about Superman but comics in general. The constant focus on this ridiculous sci-fi, silver age-y technology doesn't come off as clever but only trying to hard to sound and look cool. Its sheer dominance in the story only made me less interested as things went on and the issue in prison which was largely devoid of it was like a breath of fresh air after getting drowned in a filthy ocean.
The Bizarro portion in particular was so loaded with this I barely had the stomach to finish it.

The relationship between Lois and Clark gets a good amount of attention as it should, and while I have never liked either Lois or her romance with Superman, with better writing Morrison easily could've made me care for it in this situation. But he doesn't, Lois is still annoying as ever with her flirting with the two time travelers after Superman gives her the best gift ever being a great low point and her constant refusal to accept that yes, CLARK IS SUPERMAN! just comes off as her trying to justify not figuring it out.

Where are all the other heroes? In a storyline where Superman is dying, I want and need to see other heroes because its Superman dying for crying out loud! Why the hell is Jimmy Olsen getting an issue where he's director of P.R.O.J.E.C.T. and turning into Doomsday but neither Batman nor Wonder Woman gets a last team up with a fellow Trinity member?! Superman is dying! I know he's keeping it a secret for most of it but if Morrison wanted to establish a Superman only universe, then he shouldn't have gone out of his way to reference other heroes several times! It only makes their absence even more glaring!

Clumsy Clark Kent is another "classic" trope of Superman that I'm glad got the ax, Morrison however begs to differ. Now I did like that he uses his clumsiness as a method to save people while he's out of costume, but is it really necessary? You're telling me he can't do anything more subtle to pull it off or just use regular super speed to pull off the same thing?

The biggest offense though is that the book is both boring and absolutely fails on every level to make me care about Superman dying. Now I'm not the biggest fan of Superman, but should I need to be to feel sad that he's going to die? I certainly didn't like Wolverine at all, but his recent death managed to get quite a few emotional responses out of me, so why does Superman's fail at this?

The writing itself is the cause of this, the conversations rarely ever flow naturally to me. Characters (particularly Lex, oh boy) talk in these bizarre ways that make them come off as aliens pretending to speak like people rather than real people, also Lex should not have say stuff like "pretty cool huh!". There is rarely any kind of good flow to it and as a consequence I find myself not being able to properly get into the story.

I always feel like there's a giant brick wall called Morrison's blegh writing putting a barrier between me and what he's trying to say, ultimately it just made the book a horrible chore to read and absolutely failed to make me care about anything that was happening. I swear, by the last couple of issues I was just reading it because it was almost over and I felt obligated to finish it off instead of wanting to complete it.

Morrison might be a great writer on JLA, Batman and pretty much everything else, but both this and his stint on Action Comics really just prove the guy can't write the Superman I want to read. Does anyone else feel like this or am I alone like with my disdain of Frank Quietly (hated his art here too minus a couple shots).

[Dispenser Of Truth]

You're far from alone. I'm sure as hell not that "anyone else" (part of me really wants to dissect your critique, but that's not the purpose of this thread), but in case no one else replies (which seems unlikely), there are indeed plenty of people who think it's insanely overrated or just plain bad.

[ekrolo2]

Feel free to disect. I'd certainly like to hear your own points and thoughts on mine.

[Jim Kelly]

Here's the thing. If there's any time when a writer and an artist have carte blanche to do what they like with a character--and maybe step on some toes in the process--it's surely in a series that is not meant to be in continuity with anything else.

Of course, the same could be said for ALL STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN. And I hated that. But it isn't really that offenisve when you consider it as totally not mattering at all, because it is in its own continuity.

Both these titles give you permission to totally ignore them.

I think the best way to judge these things is to look at what the writer and artist tried to accomplish. And then based on those standards see how well they accomplished what they set out to do. Since the book doesn't affect actual continuity, we should only look at the book within its own parameters.

I would guess that Morrison and Quitely--being their own worst critics--would say that they fell short of their goal. So it might not be the best they could do, but it comes pretty darn close. In my own opinion.

Now, if ASS or ASBAR bleed over into the regular continuity and influence those books, then that's something to complain about. Or praise, if you're in favour of it.

[ekrolo2]

Here's the thing. If there's any time when a writer and an artist have carte blanche to do what they like with a character--and maybe step on some toes in the process--it's surely in a series that is not meant to be in continuity with anything else.

Of course, the same could be said for ALL STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN. And I hated that. But it isn't really that offenisve when you consider it as totally not mattering at all, because it is in its own continuity.

Both these titles give you permission to totally ignore them.

I think the best way to judge these things is to look at what the writer and artist tried to accomplish. And then based on those standards see how well they accomplished what they set out to do. Since the book doesn't affect actual continuity, we should only look at the book within its own parameters.

I would guess that Morrison and Quitely--being their own worst critics--would say that they fell short of their goal. So it might not be the best they could do, but it comes pretty darn close. In my own opinion.

Now, if ASS or ASBAR bleed over into the regular continuity and influence those books, then that's something to complain about. Or praise, if you're in favour of it.

I know its in its own continuity but I fail to see why that matters when Morrison goes out of his way to mention Batman and other heroes, most of whom should be a part of a death of Superman story. If Morrison firmly established a solo Superman world then I wouldn't consider it an issue. As for its connectivity effecting my enjoyment I don't really consider this a good defense. Sure its great that things like this and other AU set stories like IM3 aren't canon, but it still doesn't change the fact both utterly fail at what they tried to accomplish by having good ideas wasted by poor execution. Honestly a good story should be judged on its own merits and not praised or ignored based on how much or little it appeases continuity.

[MykeHavoc]

All those elements you hate are an inherent part of the character's history. He is a sci-fi character. My first exposure was the animated film, which cuts a good portion of the story for time, so I was drawn more to the book. Each read brings a deeper appreciation for it. I definitely consider it the definitive Superman story.

[Superlad93]

Just gonna simply disagree PROFUSELY to literally all of this, but like DOT says there are people out there and on here I think who are not at all found of it for one reason or another. Also like DOT I sorta want to just dissect each point you've made but that doesn't really go anywhere because this was more your taste than the book being bad. Like the fact that other heroes are not mentioned: I counter that point with why it was like that and why it works better because of that, then you explain why that doesn't click for you. It's all fine really. I respect your opinion.

So yeah hope you and your like minded friends enjoy kicking puppy together

Obviously I'm totally joking.

[Kandor Rising]

All Star Superman issue 10 encapsulates everything that makes Superman awesome. It is my favorite single issue of Superman ever.

[Ascended]

Dude, Im with ya. Worst Superman stor....you know what, I cant even type that whole sentence out. Not even in jest. All-Star is easily one of the greatest Superman stories in history.

But its cool that it didnt do it for you. Not every story is going to connect, so no one is going to blame you for your terrible, terrible taste in comics.

Joking of course, but Im fairly sure Superlad does seriously think you're kicking puppies.

I will say Im not a fan of Quietly either. Really not a fan.

[MykeHavoc]

Morrison and Quitely are like the Lennon and McCartney of comics. A perfect fit in everything they do. I've noticed a lot of people get his name wrong. Its a play on the term "Quite Frankly", so its Quitely, not quietly. Its a pen name.

[Jim Kelly]

I can never tell if people who post Quietly for Quitely or rouge for rogue are 1) being funny, 2) making a simple typo, 3) not knowing the right spelling or 4) having dyslexia.

So I never know what to say when I see that.

[Cypher]

The OP likes very serious things.

Thats alright, OP. We all like different things.


I like my peanut butter sandwiches without jelly, I wouldnt expect anyone else to like it that way.

[MykeHavoc]

I just don't understand the desire for a "serious" tone in something that is so inherently fun, fantastic and whimsical in its very DNA. If you don't like Superman, then don't read it. Obviously there have been darker, dour takes on the character, but those never really come across to me as being successful. I'd say that's a general consensus from what I've seen.

[K. Jones]

I've got no cause to nitpick. I quite like All Star Superman but I'm not sure I'd say it's my favorite Superman story out there. I do love its completeness within itself, though. Which is weird - I'm typically such a massive Morrison acolyte.

But I'm confounded by your dislike of Superman's Lois Lane relationship. Because there is no Superman without Lois Lane. The story structure and concept of the whole thing hinges on a two-man act, all the way back to Action # 1.

Superman dating a God is the most unSupermanlike thing he's ever done. Power and warrior skill wouldn't impress him, tempered with compassion or not. A Pulitzer for whistleblowing a corrupt Senator is what would float that guy's boat. He's just a kid from Kansas. Moreover, what's sexy about Lois is that She's Better Than Superman At His Job.

[Cypher]

I just don't understand the desire for a "serious" tone in something that is so inherently fun, fantastic and whimsical in its very DNA. If you don't like Superman, then don't read it. Obviously there have been darker, dour takes on the character, but those never really come across to me as being successful. I'd say that's a general consensus from what I've seen.

Ditto.

And its not even like you cant tell a good story despite something being eccentric in nature. There are very few characters that offer what Superman offers, or has the ability to offer.




Where as on the contrary you can find plenty of characters that have these other things people are looking for.