Does anyone else dislike All Star Superman?

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I can never tell if people who post Quietly for Quitely or rouge for rogue are 1) being funny, 2) making a simple typo, 3) not knowing the right spelling or 4) having dyslexia.

So I never know what to say when I see that.

when it comes to Quitely, I always assume it's #3 (or #4 I suppose...). When it comes to rogue/rouge, I give all 4 an equal chance of being the case!

As for OP...

I used to think A-SS was overrated. I didn't think it was bad, I just didn't think it was the zenith of Superman stories like so many ppl seem to think. But then something happened gradually over time... I don't know if it was reading more Superman stories or simply understanding the character better or what. But at some point, years after I first read A-SS, it hit me that it truly is a great Superman story - arguably the best, in and of itself. Though it still probably doesn't break the Top 5 on my personal favorite list.

[napolid]

1. Lol at this thread being turned into All Star Superman appreciation.
2. I love the Story, and was really annoyed with myself at the time, for putting off reading it for a year.

[dancj]

I don't love All Star Superman - but I do love a lot about it.

1 - Jimmy Olsen - actually a good character for the first time in living memory.
2 - Similar for Lois - but I do remember her being good - some time in the mid-80s.
3 - Spot on characterisation of Lex
4 - A noticeable believable difference between Superman and Clark. This is the first time since Christopher Reeve that I've been convinced people could not realise they're the same person.
5 - Frank Quitely who is quite frankly one of the best comic artists ever.
6 - The Sci-fi heavy approach.
7 - This:
3217945-allstarsuperman10-4.jpg

With all of that I should love it. I don't really know why I don't. I'll try it again some time though. If nothing else it is absolutely beautiful.

[Heasensy32]

Superman unchained > all star superman.

[Lord of Narrative]

It's not the science fiction approach that's unlikeable. It's the Silver Age type science of it. Post-Crisis Superman did sci-fi elements WAAAAAY better, namely because it wasn't this Silver Age esque "let's be weird and cooky for the heck of it!"

[manofsteel1979]

There are things I like about All Star...and things I love, but there are parts of it that doesn't ring true to me. Can't put my finger on it really. It's overrated as a whole as I don't think it's the pinaccle Superman story some make it out to be. However individual issues of it (the lois and lex issues, the bizarro one and the aforementioned issue 10 ) rank as some of my favorite individual issues of a Superman comic ever. So I would say actually the parts of All Star are greater than the whole.

I think the reason All Star has become the gold standard to many is that it was released at a time the main Superman books were of such an uneven quality that All Star felt like a breath of fresh air to a Superman fandom was hungry for good Superman stories. Had it been released earlier or later I wonder if it would have had the impact it had. Perhaps it would have, but perhaps it wouldn't.

[Johnny Thunders!]

This book was so against the grain at the time. Want a superman who's just like you? A superman trying to figure out his place in the world? Read every other Superbook out at the time. This was an embrace of every unique, original superman idea. It did so in a way that updated every major part of a nearly abandoned mythology. The first Superman book that wasn't ashamed of the character's roots in ages. Please don't tell me how post crisis was better, post crisis ran away from the character.

[DochaDocha]

All-Star Superman is probably my favorite Superman story ever, but I can say that there are segments of the story I just don't care about. Even despite said segments, why do I hold it up with such regard? It's Morrison's underlying understanding of the character, and perhaps more importantly, love of Supes. I cynically wonder whenever someone tackles Superman of the first time if said writer is trying to change the character, make him "cooler" for the new generation (BTW, I hope people realize that making the character "evolve" all the time runs the high risk of flat out ruining the character...), and less embracing what people loved about it.

As for some of the way-out sci-fi, that's a good thing for Superman. I like a little bit of Star Trek in my Superman. Also, when I was in med school once upon a time, I knew all about apoptosis because I read about it in All-Star Superman prior. The gravity gun attack is one of my single favorite things that ever happened in a Superman story.

Finally, I can't say Frank Quitely's work is exactly how I want Superman to work, but his work serviced the story well enough.

[ekrolo2]

The OP likes very serious things.
That's alright, OP. We all like different things.
I like my peanut butter sandwiches without jelly, I wouldn't expect anyone else to like it that way.

I just don't understand the desire for a "serious" tone in something that is so inherently fun, fantastic and whimsical in its very DNA. If you don't like Superman, then don't read it. Obviously there have been darker, dour takes on the character, but those never really come across to me as being successful. I'd say that's a general consensus from what I've seen.

This really has nothing to do with me hating it because it's not "dark, realistic or ubber srs" or some such crap. The book could've been good despite it being a love letter & shrine of all things I dislike with Superman (and some for comics in general) if the writing was good enough to make me not care and just enjoy what was happening, this absolutely failed at doing that. There've been many other storylines that either sound moronic or are based around tropes I hate (like a lot of the recent Marvel books such as All-New X-Men, Superior Spider-Man, Hickman's Civil War 2.0 and Superior Iron Man) all of which managed to make me not care about that stuff simply thanks to strong writing, All Star Superman doesn't.

I've read Ed Brubaker comic that managed to elicit more interest and emotion on my part than All Star Superman, the book never had a moment where it sucked me into what's happening, never managed engage me on any level and most importantly failed to make me care that Superman is dying. All of which could've been avoided if Morrison spent more time ironing out the actual writing instead of being "Look at me! I'm so Silver Age-y and all you guys love that don't ya!?" Well congrats Grant, you did make a modern day Silver Age comic, interesting ideas destroyed by horrible art and bland writing.

[daBronzeBomma]

So by the name of the thread alone I'm pretty much painting a target on my back but after reading it I feel the need to ask, does anyone else really not like this story?

Not me. I love ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. It is neck-and-neck with WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW for my favorite Superman story ever.

Where are all the other heroes? In a storyline where Superman is dying, I want and need to see other heroes because its Superman dying for crying out loud! Why the hell is Jimmy Olsen getting an issue where he's director of P.R.O.J.E.C.T. and turning into Doomsday but neither Batman nor Wonder Woman gets a last team up with a fellow Trinity member?! Superman is dying! I know he's keeping it a secret for most of it but if Morrison wanted to establish a Superman only universe, then he shouldn't have gone out of his way to reference other heroes several times! It only makes their absence even more glaring!

At no point did I wonder where the other heroes were while reading ASS. It's a Superman story, not a Justice League story. Why do you NEED other non-Superverse heroes in a Superman story? The Superverse can function as a separate entity from the larger DCU, and IMHO, it's usually for the better when it does. If Superman was keeping it a secret from the world at large, the other leaguers have no reason to show up. Maybe they have their own emergencies going on at the same time. it doesn't matter where the other superheroes are in ALL-STAR SUPERMAN, any more than it matters where Superman is in BATMAN: YEAR ONE.

Also, if Batman showed up in ASS, I'd want big-time payback for DKR.

Meaning Batman finding out that Superman is dying that he has one last meal with Clark where Bruce tearfully professes that Batman was always the lesser man, could never hope to defeat Superman in battle, and that Bruce spent so much time trying to prepare for Superman that Gotham City was abandoned entirely by its populace and Bruce was giving up being Batman as he had completely failed in his mission by letting so many innocents be killed by the Joker. And then Clark just says, "Sorry Bruce, I've got much better things to worry about than your being an abject failure both as a superhero and as a man" and abruptly leaves an openly bawling Bruce behind.

So yeah, probably a good thing Bats didn't make an appearance in ASS, IMHO.

Clumsy Clark Kent is another "classic" trope of Superman that I'm glad got the ax, Morrison however begs to differ. Now I did like that he uses his clumsiness as a method to save people while he's out of costume, but is it really necessary? You're telling me he can't do anything more subtle to pull it off or just use regular super speed to pull off the same thing?

I agree that it's an overused concept (the clumsiness). I prefer a Clark Kent who is real good at being ignored on purpose.

The biggest offense though is that the book is both boring and absolutely fails on every level to make me care about Superman dying. Now I'm not the biggest fan of Superman, but should I need to be to feel sad that he's going to die? I certainly didn't like Wolverine at all, but his recent death managed to get quite a few emotional responses out of me, so why does Superman's fail at this?

No one can answer that question because everything you just said here was 100% your subjective opinion, and 0% objective fact. Who knows why some things resonate with some people and not others? Some people love WATCHMEN, others can't stand it, and neither of them are any more "wrong" than you are with your opinion of ASS. Maybe it just wasn't for you and your unique tastes.

Morrison might be a great writer on JLA, Batman and pretty much everything else, but both this and his stint on Action Comics really just prove the guy can't write the Superman I want to read. Does anyone else feel like this or am I alone like with my disdain of Frank Quietly (hated his art here too minus a couple shots).

Considering that Morrison is responsible for taking the loathsome BatGod version of Batman to new heights (depths) on his JLA run, the writer doesn't get an automatic pass from me. I loved Frank Quitely's depiction of Clark Kent looking visibly shorter (super-slouching) and fatter (super-puffiness?) than Superman.

What kind of Superman DO you want to read?

[ekrolo2]

Not me. I love ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. It is neck-and-neck with WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW for my favorite Superman story ever.





At no point did I wonder where the other heroes were while reading ASS. It's a Superman story, not a Justice League story. Why do you NEED other non-Superverse heroes in a Superman story? The Superverse can function as a separate entity from the larger DCU, and IMHO, it's usually for the better when it does. If Superman was keeping it a secret from the world at large, the other leaguers have no reason to show up. Maybe they have their own emergencies going on at the same time. it doesn't matter where the other superheroes are in ALL-STAR SUPERMAN, any more than it matters where Superman is in BATMAN: YEAR ONE.

Also, if Batman showed up in ASS, I'd want big-time payback for DKR.

Meaning Batman finding out that Superman is dying that he has one last meal with Clark where Bruce tearfully professes that Batman was always the lesser man, could never hope to defeat Superman in battle, and that Bruce spent so much time trying to prepare for Superman that Gotham City was abandoned entirely by its populace and Bruce was giving up being Batman as he had completely failed in his mission by letting so many innocents be killed by the Joker. And then Clark just says, "Sorry Bruce, I've got much better things to worry about than your being an abject failure both as a superhero and as a man" and abruptly leaves an openly bawling Bruce behind.

So yeah, probably a good thing Bats didn't make an appearance in ASS, IMHO.





I agree that it's an overused concept (the clumsiness). I prefer a Clark Kent who is real good at being ignored on purpose.





No one can answer that question because everything you just said here was 100% your subjective opinion, and 0% objective fact. Who knows why some things resonate with some people and not others? Some people love WATCHMEN, others can't stand it, and neither of them are any more "wrong" than you are with your opinion of ASS. Maybe it just wasn't for you and your unique tastes.





Considering that Morrison is responsible for taking the loathsome BatGod version of Batman to new heights (depths) on his JLA run, the writer doesn't get an automatic pass from me. I loved Frank Quitely's depiction of Clark Kent looking visibly shorter (super-slouching) and fatter (super-puffiness?) than Superman.

What kind of Superman DO you want to read?

Ignoring your blatant disdain of Batman, he and others should appear in this because SUPERMAN IS DYING GOD DAMN IT! He's the most important superhero of the DC Universe! Him slowly dying in a story covering his last days should have at least some appearances from his fellow heroes, I'm not saying make it a Justice League story but c'mon, just one issue devoted to them dealing with his impending death while on a last adventure with him would've been enough. But agian, if Morrison didn't go out of his way to purposefully reference other heroes and just said this is a sole Superman universe then I wouldn't been stating my problem with the absence of other heroes.

As for what kind of Superman I want to read I generally lean more towards the one that's currently being written in N52. Imo he's the best mix of nice and tough, kind enough to let other people take his cab three times in a row while its pouring outside but also tough enough to put his foot down and call other people out when they're doing something he doesn't agree with. As opposed to Post Crisis Superman who was all bark and no bite and just let everyone walk all over him (though Geoff Johns did write him very well imo in Brainiac and Last Son).

[DochaDocha]

It shouldn't be a complaint if Morrison tried to focus mainly on the Superman-specific elements of the Super-verse, and excluded crossovers. I also say this as a guy who has typically enjoyed Superman/Batman and Superman/Wonder Woman stories.

[daBronzeBomma]

Ignoring your blatant disdain of Batman, he and others should appear in this because SUPERMAN IS DYING GOD DAMN IT! He's the most important superhero of the DC Universe! Him slowly dying in a story covering his last days should have at least some appearances from his fellow heroes, I'm not saying make it a Justice League story but c'mon, just one issue devoted to them dealing with his impending death while on a last adventure with him would've been enough. But agian, if Morrison didn't go out of his way to purposefully reference other heroes and just said this is a sole Superman universe then I wouldn't been stating my problem with the absence of other heroes.

My disdain is for the BatGod version of Batman, not Batman himself.

I love Batman, but not when he deals with metahumans or non-humans, because then too often his intellect and cunning get ramped up to superhuman levels and/or the meta/non-human in question (usually Superman) is dumbed down and depowered to give a human like Bruce more relevancy at their expense. That's what I despise, and it started in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS #4 and Morrison took it further with "Babel" in the JLA storylines.

We've already seen the superheroes come to pay their respects to Superman with the whole DEATH OF SUPERMAN/FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND storyline. Don't need a upgraded repeat of that.

As for what kind of Superman I want to read I generally lean more towards the one that's currently being written in N52. Imo he's the best mix of nice and tough, kind enough to let other people take his cab three times in a row while its pouring outside but also tough enough to put his foot down and call other people out when they're doing something he doesn't agree with. As opposed to Post Crisis Superman who was all bark and no bite and just let everyone walk all over him (though Geoff Johns did write him very well imo in Brainiac and Last Son).

Here we agree 100%.

[Jim Kelly]

The limiting of Superman's world to just those characters in his supporting cast made it feel more like the Weisinger-era Superman. Outside of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS, Superman didn't encounter his Justice League buddies all that much in his own stories. I think that Grant understood that and that's why he limted the scope of the series in that way. It gives it that old timey feeling, where not just Superman but every DC hero seemed to exist in his or her own world--with the exception of those team-up stories. Frankly, for a lot of years, Batman rarely met any other DC super-heroes in his own books.

[ekrolo2]

My disdain is for the BatGod version of Batman, not Batman himself.

I love Batman, but not when he deals with metahumans or non-humans, because then too often his intellect and cunning get ramped up to superhuman levels and/or the meta/non-human in question (usually Superman) is dumbed down and depowered to give a human like Bruce more relevancy at their expense. That's what I despise, and it started in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS #4 and Morrison took it further with "Babel" in the JLA storylines.

We've already seen the superheroes come to pay their respects to Superman with the whole DEATH OF SUPERMAN/FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND storyline. Don't need a upgraded repeat of that.




Here we agree 100%.

Wasn't it Waid who wrote Tower of Babel?