Does anyone else dislike All Star Superman?

[Captain Haddock]

I find with both Morrison and Quitely that when they work, they REALLY work, when it doesn't, it's terrible. I can't honestly recall reading anything they did separately or together where I was left feeling 'well, that was... alright.' It's either great or awful for me. That said, All-Star is definitely in the really does work category for me, unlike at least some others I never read it as individual issues but only in collection - which seems to have improved it immensely for those who read it both ways. On the other hand, I started Morrison's Action Comics but gave up pretty quickly as it left me cold.

[ImprobableQuestion]

Okay, I'm straight-up starting to feel bad for ekrolo2. Where are all the people who genuinely dislike, hate, or at least have no interest in All-Star? I KNOW there are people on here who fit into those categories.

HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!!

For me the definitive version of any given DC character will always be the DCAU version (Aquaman and Green Lantern continuities notwithstanding).

I haven't read all of All Star Superman (I don't know why I haven't read the Bizarro part yet, he's a favorite of mine), but the stakes never seemed high enough in the parts I read for a "Superman is dying" plot. It's all super symbolic hyper idealistic stuff that always kept me away from other Superman stories.

I liked the DCAU version because they made him powerful without being "perfect." His only physical challenge was Darkseid and his major moral foil was Lex. And my particular favorite part about him was the way those two characters completely ruffled him. It got to the point that by Justice League Supes would lose his mind at the very mention of Darkseid.

Darkseid doesn't have anything to do with All-Star, but the point I'm trying to make is that Morrison's Superman is too "perfect" for me to be invested in. He cures cancer. That's not Superman to me.

[dancj]

Yeah we don't like the ubber wrinkly style that makes everyone look like malformed freaks. I honestly don't get how so many like him tbh.

I'm not sure I can think of an artist who doesn't make people look like malformed freaks. It would take someone completely photo-realistic to do it.

[daBronzeBomma]

For me the definitive version of any given DC character will always be the DCAU version

Ugh. Can't stand the DCAU Superman. Most powerless version since early Golden Age and easily the most boring character on S:TAS, and constantly made to be Batman's beeyotch (but then Batman made every other hero his beeyotch on that show, including Wonder Woman) in JL/U. They only upped Superman's power in later seasons to show what a potential threat to humanity he could be.

ALL-STAR SUPERMAN gets no small amount of its praise due to A) the fact that it struck such a positive chord among so many Superman fans and B) it was released during what was arguably Superman's most creatively bankrupt period (2000 - 2010 ... what is that, the Aluminum Age?). If ALL-STAR SUPERMAN had been released in any other decade instead of the 2000s (say 1980s, 1990s, or 2010s), the field of memorable Superman projects would have been considerably more crowded and it may not have stood out as much.

But that's all conjecture. Personally, I love ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. It'd be hard to maintain THAT version of Superman for much beyond a miniseries or extended run, but man, it was a breath of much-needed fresh air at the time, IMHO. It's tied with WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW? as my favorite Superman story.

[ekrolo2]

I'm not sure I can think of an artist who doesn't make people look like malformed freaks. It would take someone completely photo-realistic to do it.

I can think of plenty who manages to their characters look human enough or those who can make them "less human look" appealing, Quitely can't do either. Everything and everyone has a million lines all over for the sake of trying to look detailed and his faces always come off more as shriveled vegetables then anything human.

[DochaDocha]

I liked the DCAU version because they made him powerful without being "perfect." His only physical challenge was Darkseid and his major moral foil was Lex. And my particular favorite part about him was the way those two characters completely ruffled him. It got to the point that by Justice League Supes would lose his mind at the very mention of Darkseid.

Darkseid doesn't have anything to do with All-Star, but the point I'm trying to make is that Morrison's Superman is too "perfect" for me to be invested in. He cures cancer. That's not Superman to me.

When people compliment the DCAU Superman for saying he's not too "perfect," I end up reading between the lines that every other version of Superman out there is fails in that regard. Ultimately, that seems like a losing argument to me, because then you're essentially saying that there's no singular instance in the decades of comics, years of TV, or various movies in which Superman isn't shown as less than "perfect."

Also, I'd highly, HIGHLY disagree that the only physical challenge was Darkseid. I guess you could say that Darkseid is one of the few characters who probably would actually kill Superman with his bare fists, but I feel like of the approximately half of the series I watched, there were plenty of times when Superman was physically overmatched. Sinestro readily comes to mind; he seemed untouchable against Superman. However, I will agree that the Supes/Darkseid relationship was done really well, and I did indeed like how Superman sort of got lucky against Darkseid in their last encounter in STAS. I do wonder, though, if their subsequent fights in JL/JLU were superfluous, because they never really came close to topping how emotionally draining, and then how ultimately futile it was, to engage Darkseid in a fist fight. I did like the episode "Twilight" a lot, but as much as I enjoyed it, it still comes up short to their previous fight.

I'd also argue that you don't need photo-realism in order for drawn characters not to look like malformed freaks. People have been able to make four-color approximations pretty well for a long time.

[Darth Kal-el]

I love All Star but I don't find it the best Superman ever. Grant Morrison is my favorite writer and Superman my favorite character but there are stories of superman I like more, unchained comes to mind quickly since I just bought the hardcore for a friend for Christmas

[Lexrules]

An amazing story but not my personal favorite. That honor is reserved for Alan Moore, For the Man who has Everything.

[dancj]

I can think of plenty who manages to their characters look human enough or those who can make them "less human look" appealing, Quitely can't do either. Everything and everyone has a million lines all over for the sake of trying to look detailed and his faces always come off more as shriveled vegetables then anything human.

Obviously 'appealing' is in the eye of the beholder, but his current popularity suggest a lot of people think he does just fine in that regard.

And for the less human artists, I can't see why the likes of Sergio Aragones, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, Tim Sale, Humberto Ramos, David Mazzucchelli (post Year One), Frank Miller, Art Adams, Joe Madureira, Kevin Maguire, Eduardo Risso, Mike Mignola, Jack Kirby and John Romita JR all (or most) seem to be accepted, but then Quitely gets accused of drawing deformed people.

[ekrolo2]

Obviously 'appealing' is in the eye of the beholder, but his current popularity suggest a lot of people think he does just fine in that regard.

And for the less human artists, I can't see why the likes of Sergio Aragones, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, Tim Sale, Humberto Ramos, David Mazzucchelli (post Year One), Frank Miller, Art Adams, Joe Madureira, Kevin Maguire, Eduardo Risso, Mike Mignola, Jack Kirby and John Romita JR all (or most) seem to be accepted, but then Quitely gets accused of drawing deformed people.

Difference is that guys like Mignola, Sale, Maduereria make the "deformity" look good regardless of it being anatomically incorrect, the rest of the guys you listed can piss off for all I care. As for Quitely he does it in a bad way as I described above.

[Slaughter]

I quite like All-Star, but frankly I think its more of a All-Star Silver Age Superman (with bronze and iron age elements) than really All-Star. Heck, pretty much every epoch of Superman (Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Modern) could fill a entire All-Star title by itself.

[The Cheat]

Quitely in at #2.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...artists-3-1/2/

Probably about right.

[Lexrules]

Quitely in at #2.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...artists-3-1/2/

Probably about right.

Thank God Jim Lee is not in the Top 3. That may have sent me off the deepend

[BBally]

Difference is that guys like Mignola, Sale, Maduereria make the "deformity" look good regardless of it being anatomically incorrect, the rest of the guys you listed can piss off for all I care. As for Quitely he does it in a bad way as I described above.

Oh dear, the Kirby fans aren't going to like this.

[ImprobableQuestion]

When people compliment the DCAU Superman for saying he's not too "perfect," I end up reading between the lines that every other version of Superman out there is fails in that regard. Ultimately, that seems like a losing argument to me, because then you're essentially saying that there's no singular instance in the decades of comics, years of TV, or various movies in which Superman isn't shown as less than "perfect."

I haven't seen every version of Superman in every medium, so no, I can't judge all of them.

Also, I'd highly, HIGHLY disagree that the only physical challenge was Darkseid. I guess you could say that Darkseid is one of the few characters who probably would actually kill Superman with his bare fists, but I feel like of the approximately half of the series I watched, there were plenty of times when Superman was physically overmatched. Sinestro readily comes to mind; he seemed untouchable against Superman. However, I will agree that the Supes/Darkseid relationship was done really well, and I did indeed like how Superman sort of got lucky against Darkseid in their last encounter in STAS. I do wonder, though, if their subsequent fights in JL/JLU were superfluous, because they never really came close to topping how emotionally draining, and then how ultimately futile it was, to engage Darkseid in a fist fight. I did like the episode "Twilight" a lot, but as much as I enjoyed it, it still comes up short to their previous fight.

I was also thinking about Doomsday and Bizarro when I typed that, but they were more like one-episode wonders.

I think the arc between Darkseid and Superman in the DCAU is my favorite Superman story, from beginning with "That is who I am" to the finale on Apokolips.It wasn't until they had to bring him back for "Destroyer" that he was a bit overdrawn.

I'd also argue that you don't need photo-realism in order for drawn characters not to look like malformed freaks. People have been able to make four-color approximations pretty well for a long time.

I haven't commented about the art. Quitely was alright. Jim Lee is really good when he takes his time (like Unchained) but not for ongoings. I can't stand his Aquaman design.