Surely I'm not the only one that hates New 52 Shazam?

[Dataweaver]

FWIW, the Golden Age version wasn’t Billy, either.

[Lee Stone]

The Flashpoint version wasn't billy or any of the other kids, he seem to be a different character with a mind of his own.

True... but the "Captain Planet" concept applied to the Marvel Family was such a logical progression.

[Dataweaver]

Excuse me?

Indeed. No one racial group can claim to be “the” ones who make this country run. We’re a Melting Pot country (which, if comics were being used to make political statements, might be a reason to favor Flashpoint’s Captain Thunder over New 52’s Shazam).

[Dataweaver]

True... but the "Captain Planet" concept applied to the Marvel Family was such a logical progression.

From what I hear, it was one of the original ideas that was floated for Captain Marvel back when they were first dreaming him up.

[megaharrison]

its 2014 and creating characters thats not white still get labelled as filling quotas and creating them for PC reasons?

I don't really see why people disagree with the term. I mean you can argue it's necessary and a good thing (that's a different issue), but a quota it still is. They say "we need more of x (black/women/etc.)" then seek to attain that level of x in a comic book. The details of such are then filled in.

We need more black teens ---> A black teen flash ---> Wally West is now black, and so on.

[Dataweaver]

What I find most ironic is that they missed the boat on the single most obvious way of adding a touch of racial diversity, one that wouldn’t involve rewriting the character at all, so much as it would involve changing the presentation (artwork, possibly dialog, etc.) to match the already-established facts:

Make Wonder Woman Greek.

[Jody Garland]

FWIW, the Golden Age version wasn’t Billy, either.

I think a lot of people need to realize this. The Golden Age Captain Marvel was treated as a distinct entity from Billy, similar in concept to (and likely inspiring) the Rick Jones - Mar-Vell relationship from the '70s Captain Marvel at Marvel. I think the first time Billy and Marvel were shown as the same personality was the 70s DC stuff.

[catmanreturns]

I think the new 52 has had some horrible missteps. All the titles I tried to collect I lost interest in all of them. I held on to Batgirl... then then they decided to move in a new direction, and then they got rid of Nightwing. I was done with DC. Thank goodness Secret Six is back.

[Sirzechs]

I don't really see why people disagree with the term. I mean you can argue it's necessary and a good thing (that's a different issue), but a quota it still is. They say "we need more of x (black/women/etc.)" then seek to attain that level of x in a comic book. The details of such are then filled in.

We need more black teens ---> A black teen flash ---> Wally West is now black, and so on.

Probably because its horrible term that regresses characters to walking skin tones and gender as if that's their only purpose.

[DIVINITY]

And it seems like no matter what, when it comes to diversity. It's always dismissed as being forced or PC.

THIS!!!!!!

P.S. I like the concept from Flashpoint, and I'm glad they brought that into the Nu52, now, I just wish they'd do something with it, honestly though, I'm more concerned about Black Adam, and his status coming out of Convergence...

[jaygarrick'shelmet]

Good god. I don't mind the current cap. I sort of prefer the big red cheese and making him a teen changes him a lot(although I don't mind billy hitting puberty I like it as a form of progression).

That said this whole thread is a mess. I don't understand this messageboard nor do I understand how you fans are so ridiculous.

1)There is a huge pro-nu52 kneejerk reaction which I feel is tiring to read because it shoots down any criticism as fanboyism, and nostalgia, and blah blah blah. People can dislike things without it their long rand being quoted and summed up with a "oh you're just being a nostalgic baby". No there are legitimate reasons longtime fans are a bit disappointed by the nu52.

2)That said it becomes immediately clear WHY there is such a quick kneejerk reaction and that is because you complainers are fricken crazy. Jeez man you can take your legitimate gripes and make yourseves look like the crazy ones. You go on weird tangent and reject any and all change. Suddenly it becames clear why instead of having conversations the other people immediately and go straight to fanboyism. It's because yall make everyone else look so bad that people can't have rational conversations here.

3) Jesus christ how is creating new characters who aren't white filling a racial quota? I can sort of understand this argument when people are talking about making an old character a new race. So yeah I can get half black wally west getting people going "wha? That's odd" but adding in characters. First thing is first we're talking about kids who live in cities. Maybe you all live in rural areas or something but diversity isn't something that only exists in captain planet. It's real life in areas with immigrant populations. Growing up in high school my lunch table was a latino, asain, black, white, and pakistani. It's not filling some quota and quite frankly it's not weird that a random girl in a foster home is also black. I think that it's stranger that we have all these characters existing in cities and everyone is white.

[gwangung]

I don't really see why people disagree with the term. I mean you can argue it's necessary and a good thing (that's a different issue), but a quota it still is.

Only to sheltered people.

To other people, it's the world outside their door.

It's only forced if it's done poorly.

And, frankly, creating a world of strictly white persons is forced and unrealistic.

[etamogrey]

This thread makes me glad that i'm a bigger black adam fan than i am a shazam fan.

That being said like some i too was introduced to Billy through Curse of Shazam and quite like his portrayal there and in the New52 in general though i'd like to see characters like Pedro,Darla, Eugene and billy's new foster family fleshed out more.

I'm not even gonna talk about the Racial quota stuff(its stupid anyway)

[Dataweaver]

As I implied earlier, it isn’t the fact that you’re introducing minority characters that makes it an exercise in filling quotas; it’s why you’re doing it: if your primary reason is “there aren’t enough blacks/hispanics/asians/women/gays/etc.”, then you’re filling a quota; if your primary reason is “it makes sense for this character to be black/hispanic/…”, then it isn’t filling quotas.

This isn’t a binary argument where you either want an aggressive pursuit of diversity as a goal in and of itself or you want everybody to be white.

[megaharrison]

Probably because its horrible term that regresses characters to walking skin tones and gender as if that's their only purpose.

It may be a not-nice-sounding term but it is what it is. I would love to simply have everyone be color blind. But in 2014 America, minority quotas are a big part of life that exist all across society. In the mechanisms of bureaucracy and policy-setting, this does often translate into treating human beings being reduced to walking skin tones. Especially in state/federal jobs where I work. Even good intentions have blowback.

I'm not sure what else you would call inventing minority characters (for the purpose of having a minority character)/racebending existing characters so you can have more minority characters other than meeting a self-set quota. Again, you can say these quotas are a good thing and are necessary, but denying what it is comes off as silly and disingenuous.