Those Amazons...whose are the best?

[Frank]

I have this inkling not yet fleshed out that the general comic audience most likes the Amazons (or any "non-human" comic book race) when they're deeply flawed. While I haven't spent much time thinking about that, it did get me to thinking about the portrayal of the Amazons, and who, generally, has showed them in a way I most connect to and that is, for me, "the best."

A problem with rendering the Amazons, I think, is that they really need their own title to be anything more than a set piece. At least something corollary to Peter David's "The Atlantis Chronicles" that really breathes life into the culture absent the hero (I admit to not having read David's Atlantis Chronicles in a long time, and just remembering that I loved it 20 years ago). After all, Diana left the island(s) because she's the adventurous sort and wanted more. If Diana is the character we love and sympathize with, why shouldn't we want to leave them behind, too? But unlike the Superman or Batman, and more like Aquaman, Diana's world isn't blown up or assassinated; but unlike Aquaman, Diana isn't really a proper leader of her people. Azz brought us closer to this in a sense by taking Hippolyte out of the game early on, but he was clearly more interested in building (and tearing down) the Olympian world than the Amazonian world, and his Amazons, largely, remain a set piece, important only for the great war with the First Born.

Anyway, all this leads me to wondering which WW tale-spinner has best represented the Amazons as a vibrant culture of interesting people. I guess the standard go-to answer is Perez, but honestly, except for Hellene, so many of his Amazons (in my memory) have the same voice. I remember reading an interview with Dave Cockrum in which he said that he thought Claremont wasn't as awesome as writing women as people thought because he kept writing the same strong woman over and over most of the time, and, well, that's how I feel sometimes about Perez's Amazons. That, and I really disliked that all of the advanced technology was gone, and that none of the Amazons had come up with more creative ways to defend Doom's Doorway over thousands of years than with a seal and some swords. On the other hand, at least he gave them names and different purposes, and I remember that his characterization of Aella was a seed that inspired Phil Jimenez (along with Loebs' bringing Perez's Amazons of Bana-Migdhall to Themiscyra) to do the Civil War issues.

Hm. Those Banas. Maybe it was Perez who's done the best with the Amazons. Or was it Marston, father of the DC Amazons? Honestly, I've always really responded well to Sekowsky's Amazons from the pre-crisis issues 183-184 in the war and "Return to Paradise Island" story because they were just so gutsy.

What do you think: who's done the Amazons the most justice, and why?

[Agent Z]

George Perez whom as you said made the Amazons more than a set piece. They were flawed yet sympathetic and their past as victims of ancient sexism was well told and made the comic more real.

[Dr. Poison]

Perez and Jimenez's Amazons were the best IMO. They had flaws yet their moral compasses generally pointed north plus they were capable of so many great things such as architecture, combat strategies, and amazing technology.

[Darius]

I have this inkling not yet fleshed out that the general comic audience most likes the Amazons (or any "non-human" comic book race) when they're deeply flawed. While I haven't spent much time thinking about that, it did get me to thinking about the portrayal of the Amazons, and who, generally, has showed them in a way I most connect to and that is, for me, "the best."

A problem with rendering the Amazons, I think, is that they really need their own title to be anything more than a set piece. At least something corollary to Peter David's "The Atlantis Chronicles" that really breathes life into the culture absent the hero (I admit to not having read David's Atlantis Chronicles in a long time, and just remembering that I loved it 20 years ago). After all, Diana left the island(s) because she's the adventurous sort and wanted more. If Diana is the character we love and sympathize with, why shouldn't we want to leave them behind, too? But unlike the Superman or Batman, and more like Aquaman, Diana's world isn't blown up or assassinated; but unlike Aquaman, Diana isn't really a proper leader of her people. Azz brought us closer to this in a sense by taking Hippolyte out of the game early on, but he was clearly more interested in building (and tearing down) the Olympian world than the Amazonian world, and his Amazons, largely, remain a set piece, important only for the great war with the First Born.

Anyway, all this leads me to wondering which WW tale-spinner has best represented the Amazons as a vibrant culture of interesting people. I guess the standard go-to answer is Perez, but honestly, except for Hellene, so many of his Amazons (in my memory) have the same voice. I remember reading an interview with Dave Cockrum in which he said that he thought Claremont wasn't as awesome as writing women as people thought because he kept writing the same strong woman over and over most of the time, and, well, that's how I feel sometimes about Perez's Amazons. That, and I really disliked that all of the advanced technology was gone, and that none of the Amazons had come up with more creative ways to defend Doom's Doorway over thousands of years than with a seal and some swords. On the other hand, at least he gave them names and different purposes, and I remember that his characterization of Aella was a seed that inspired Phil Jimenez (along with Loebs' bringing Perez's Amazons of Bana-Migdhall to Themiscyra) to do the Civil War issues.

Hm. Those Banas. Maybe it was Perez who's done the best with the Amazons. Or was it Marston, father of the DC Amazons? Honestly, I've always really responded well to Sekowsky's Amazons from the pre-crisis issues 183-184 in the war and "Return to Paradise Island" story because they were just so gutsy.

What do you think: who's done the Amazons the most justice, and why?

Conceptually I'm firmly in the Marston camp because he created them with a purpose. They were independent, interesting and advanced beyond anything human without everything being "gifts" from the gods. Unfortunately the 1940s writing doesn't translate well now so most of Marston's writing is a bit hokey by today's standards, but as part of WW's mythology I think Marston gave them the most interesting role.

I have to say I have always been of two minds in regards to Perez version. One the one hand he gave them depth at a personal level and made their existence relatable. On the other hand he made them kind of one dimensional and a tad preachy so I never looked forward to Diana going to PI as it seemed like a device just to pass along some words of wisdom.

Simone, although I am not a huge fan, did some interesting things with the Amazons. She certainly gave them more flaws, but ultimately I feel like she just added drama not real depth to them.

The Amazons are the major dislike I have of the Azzarello run. I kind of wish he'd just left them as literal snakes instead of actually making them human snakes! I do hope we see some retcons as they deserve better.

[Vanguard-01]

George Perez whom as you said made the Amazons more than a set piece. They were flawed yet sympathetic and their past as victims of ancient sexism was well told and made the comic more real.

This.

Perez and Jimenez's Amazons were the best IMO. They had flaws yet their moral compasses generally pointed north plus they were capable of so many great things such as architecture, combat strategies, and amazing technology.

And this.

There's no contest. Perez and Jimenez produced the best Amazons thus far.

[Awonder]

I agree with much of what's already been said. To me, the Amazons are a big part of the WW story and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, DC does not have a great track record of late in handling them. They are her Alfred, her Kent's family farm, and her Green Lantern Corps all in one.

Marston - Big kudos (even if often weird). I love that he turned the old myths around and created a very unique version. They're accomplished athletes, artists, and scientists. And most of all, they're positive. A positive sisterhood.

Perez - War, violence, and sexism are an ugly combination. Unfortunately, they're also a big part of human history across the globe. Perez showed how the a Amazons had to deal with this. I also like Doom's Doorway; the Amazons need some purpose and action of their own. And I like the Bana in that it shows different approaches among them.

Rucka - I love the embassy and the politics. And I love Io's statement to Diana (paraphrasing): "You are our ambassador."

Simone - "I give you our daughter." And though it wasn't a big part, I liked the Amazons out and about in our world.

Azzarello - I hate it. I feel I understand what he was going for, but I think he took it too far. I could work with it if some changes were made. But as it is, it's the part I hate most.

Zeu - Who? Fellow WW fan and very talented artist. If you didn't see it when he posted it on the CBR boards pre-reboot, I recommend checking out his deviant art page:

http://eliseugouveia.deviantart.com/gallery/

Wish I could figure out how to post one of the images.