Article: Wonder Woman’s New 52 Origin Should Not Be Used in Film (or At All)

[lmcgaughy111]

I know that there seems to be a lot of people that enjoyed Brian Azzarello/Cliff Chiang run on WW. Overall I thought the run was okay, but I think that what they did to WW's origin (especially the Amazons) was pretty horrible. I know that they said they didn't want to do any research so as not to influence their take on the character, but in doing so I think they missed what made WW so great.

Anyhow, the article perfectly captures my issues with the new 52 WW. I was thinking that it was terrible that now that WW finally get's to the big screen the version we are going to probably get is the new 52 WW which for me is so inferior to the depth and richness of the pre-52 WW (I am thinking Perez's version). I am sure not everyone is going to agree, but the article is an interesting read. Check it out.

Wonder Woman’s New 52 Origin Should Not Be Used in Film (or At All)

[Blacksun]

I agree

10 char

[Lord of Narrative]

No research? The reboot was HEAVILY steeped in Greek myths.

[lmcgaughy111]

When I was talking about the lack of research I meant that they didn't look back on previous runs of WW. For me it came off as they didn't get WW or where she came from.

The Amazon's interpretation in the run is a particular sore spot for me. Brain thought he was doing something new and different, but to me he changed the Amazons of Themyscira into the Amazons of Bana-Mighdall (from Perez's run). They probably didn't intend to do that, but they didn't know because of the lack of research. Even though the Amazons of Bana-Mighdall were brutal their story was well developed and you could understand why they were that way. Brian Azzarello's version of the Amazons seems to be an afterthought. I would think with a story arc that lasted for three years he could have fleshed out their background and motivations a little more. The Amazons are an important pillar in Diana's world and I just wish they would have been given more attention and respect.

[borntohula]

I'm quite sure they did some research on the character, especially since Diana not only had one angry red head to fight with during the run, but TWO.

And Brian/Cliff went closer to the amazon myth, using it to make a point about oppression being tied to tradition.

But about the origin used in the film. I'm hoping they'll use an origin that fits the story the want to tell with their movie/movies. That they avoid getting stuck in the details instead of sticking to what makes Diana tick, which is her strong heart. What I hope they keep from WW#1-35 is that her mercy both can be a strength and sometimes a weakness, which I think is a cool focus for the character. Positive in a practical way of thinking about it

[Lord of Narrative]

I'm quite sure they did some research on the character, especially since Diana not only had one angry red head to fight with during the run, but TWO.

two? And I'm pretty sure Azzarello tried to seemingly divorce it from the semblance of other stories so as to lack comparison to those stories, as well as to not just retread the same water.

[Punisher007]

Or you know, they did what a reboot is theoretically supposed to do. Start over and do a new spin on the character. Admittedly I wasn't big on the "murdering rapist" aspect of it (although that's also probably more mythologically accurate), but the rest (yes including the demi-god thing) I had no issue with. And given that it's been one of the most acclaimed and successful books that DC has, apparently neither did a lot of other people.

[Largo161]

"Basically got the same origin as Herakles..." "...a humorless Xena."

I couldn't agree more. The irony is that DC has let writers make Wonder Woman more closely resemble characters who were never as popular as Wonder Woman to begin with.

[Blacksun]

do a spin on the character is not change the origin.

[lmcgaughy111]

As I said before, I know I there are those that have enjoyed the run. For me it was okay, but that's just me. I still enjoy the character and have hopes that better stories will come. Anyhow, when I read the article it summed up my feelings pretty well and thought others might be interested.

[borntohula]

two? And I'm pretty sure Azzarello tried to seemingly divorce it from the semblance of other stories so as to lack comparison to those stories, as well as to not just retread the same water.

Circe, Giganta, Orana and Artemis in the pre n52. Aleka and Orion in the new run

Yep, Azzarello and Chiang definitely set out to make their own thing.

As I said before, I know I there are those that have enjoyed the run. For me it was okay, but that's just me. I still enjoy the character and have hopes that better stories will come. Anyhow, when I read the article it summed up my feelings pretty well and thought others might be interested.

Thanks for posting it. There was some interesting points in it.

It'll be interesting to see what they make out of the character, and what the response will be. Being who's involved in directing the film, I'v really started to feel hope

[Vonter Voman]

As if I didn't read all of that 3 years ago and since then every week or so. I'm even gonna bet the writer is someone who already said all of that at some point in this timeline.

[Largo161]

...wait a minute, hold up! I just got to the paragraph in the marysue.com article about SM/WW #13 (a title I don't read).

Supes had to teach Diana some compassion? Really DC, REALLLY?

[Awonder]

Hi lmcgaughy111, welcome welcome to our lil Paradise Island.

Thanks for sharing the link. I share some of the author's concerns and criticism. For me, Azzarello's depiction of the Amazons, and the lack of background, complexity, and development, are the biggest obstacle to enjoying this run.

I prefer the clay origin for it's focus on her mother (esp Simone's version), but I could work with the Hippolyta-Zeus version. It's a rather generic, over-used, and obviously borrowed set-up. But some new things can be done with it (eg, Azzarello adding the First Born).

How Diana is born is not the most important piece (doesn't even need a mention); how they depict Diana (and other women) is of greater concern. Here, I'm not fond of generic sword gal (I'm looking at you Tomasi, who made even Johns' poor showing look good in comparison). Lasso > sword. Like the author, I'm not entirely against WW using a sword from time to time, but it's over-use just screams 'creative impotence.'

[Silvanus]

When I was talking about the lack of research I meant that they didn't look back on previous runs of WW. For me it came off as they didn't get WW or where she came from.

I think what they said was that they didn't want to get too deep into the continuity and details of any particular prior run--not that they didn't do nay research into the character's history at all. There's actually lost of evidence of familiarity with previous runs, and especially Marston's. Some of the examples I can think of are matters of interpretation and may or may not have actually occurred to the creators, but others were clearly intended:

--Invocation of "loving submission," Marston's most central idea, in issues 27 and 35;
--Multiple examples of Wonder Woman showing mercy and compassion and inspiring or encouraging people her enemies and those in need (including Hera, Orion (issue 22), Hades (via the love bullet), Milan, the Minotaur, Demeter, Artemis, Siracca, and even Cassandra, in that Diana persuades Hera to spare her so she can have a chance at "redemption.)
--the power suppression effect of Diana's "cuffs," which is a reimagining of the old "berserker rage";
--lots of nods to Marston's bondage context, including Hades' trying to tap Diana with her own lasso, and the Minotaur's bondage gear;
-"Oliveburn" as a the name of Zola's Virginia town, according to issue 11. This is a reference to Olive Byrne, Marston's lover.
--The role of Persephone in Azz's issue 9, which paralleled between Lord Conquest's wife on the Martian underworld in Marston's issue 2 ;
-Parallel between the raids in Azzarello and the annual "husband hunt" undertaken by ancient Amazons, as seen in Marston's time travel/devolution story featuring Giganta (issue 9?);
--Diana's discovery that Heph's apparent "slaves" actually love him and consider themselves happy, paralleling Diana's observation about the former slaves of the Baroness;

The Amazon's interpretation in the run is a particular sore spot for me. Brain thought he was doing something new and different, but to me he changed the Amazons of Themyscira into the Amazons of Bana-Mighdall (from Perez's run). They probably didn't intend to do that, but they didn't know because of the lack of research.

It would surprise me if editors read the proposal and didn't say "hey, you know about the Bana Mighdall, right?" If Azz and Chiang hadn't known about them before and editors filled them in, I feel pretty sure they would have said something like this: "Yeah, that won't really do it; we think good stories come from conflict, so we want Wonder Woman to have to deal with finding out about this mysterious, dark part of the history of her own group of Amazons." There are lots of good ways to disagree with that idea, but I really don't think it was about "research." They could have come up with the idea that the bad stuff was done by other Amazons without even having to do research; but they decided not to go that route.

Really, if you don't like some of the stuff they've done, saying "they didn't do their research" is probably letting them off too easy. Most likely, they consciously decided to change the stuff they changed, knowing how it used to be and knowing that there were alternatives. That's fine with me, because I liked the run a lot; but if I didn't, I'd blame them for having consciously rejected the alternatives, not just overlooking them.

Brian Azzarello's version of the Amazons seems to be an afterthought.

I can understand and sympathize with this complaint, even though I don't feel the same way. I think that in some runs and for some readers, the Amazons have been more or less "co-protagonists" instead of supporting characters. In Azz's run they (and everyone else) are important to the story not so much in their own right as for what we can learn about Diana by comparing and contrasting them to Diana and seeing her interact with them (or, for most of the run, miss them). That works for me, but I get that readers for him the Amazons are very important in their own right won't be happy with some of what Azz did.