For We Are Many: Legion Appreciation

[JustAnotherFan]

You mean how he erased himself from existence except for in the mind of Blindfold (Ruth)? I loved the series but kinda disliked the ending, but only because I lost one of my favorite characters since 96'. I think the book would have sold much better had they not gone with Huat as the premier artist. I get it, some people like it, its so bad its considered abstract and artsy, but the vast majority of the runs fans couldn't stand it and to be honest, from a marketing standpoint it didn't encourage impulse buying off of the rack. You flip through that book, with zero interest in it, you'd probably never give it a chance.

As for the show... I love the idea bit I guarantee you, this wasn't Fox's first choice for a live action. Legion is removed far enough away that he'd probably never hear the name X-Men, much less come into contact with them... Hopefully the show catches on and encourages Marvel to give Fox more access to the X-Men.

Well, I'm talking about that too. But mainly I meant the whole semi-meta speech David made and Spurrier wrote about how David finally found his peace (by erasing himself from existence) and that he hoped that everyone left him alone now that he was finally happy, hoping that nobody would bring him back (was he talking about in-universe individuals or potential future writers?) to be used for their own means (by in-universe characters like Magik or villains or as a plot device for stories like AoA, AoX, etc.)

I've been thinking about starting a "We Are Legion: David Haller Appreciation Thread" for quite some time, but thought no one else was interested.

I come at Legion in large part from his interactions with Magik, but also liked his two featured runs in Legacy.

His reality altering Obliteration of himself leaves a lot of unanswered questions for me, especially in what Magik remembers about the Obliteration of the Elder Gods. In certain ways, given that Magik Pwned the Elders, Juggernaut, Cyttorak & The Serpent, the Phoenix Force, Dormammu etc, manipulating David into Unmaking himself seems within her abilities to subtly puppeteer the Marvel Universe.

I'm also wondering about the intrinsic nature of David's powers:
My head canon is that David is a "Psychopomp", a carrier of the souls of the Dead on to another Realm.

Note that David's original manifestation of powers was to absorb the mind of a suicide bomber (who ended up with TP), while simultaneously grabbing a second personality with TK that saved David's life. Then in New Mutants, David was also shown absorbing the personalities of other mutants, who ended up 'Fixing' his mind.

Later on, when David reappeared in New Mutants Volume III, he was shown explicitly absorbing a whole set of individuals, including a little girl who died in the 616.

Recall that Jean Grey's original manifestation of powers was to link telepathically with her best friend when she was struck and killed by a car, and later on became host to the Phoenix Force, the Conceptual Being of Death and Rebirth.

I propose that each and every power and alternate personality of David comes from an actual being somewhen, presumably at the moment of their death, at which point he takes on their power set as well, precisely as Rogue takes the personality of individuals by touch, including their skills and powers if they had them. My assertion is that unlike Rogue's touch limited ability, David can reach across time streams to absorb psyches of the dying, as well as the living in his immediate presence.

Some of this might have been confirmed if David had explicitly manifested Karma or Magik's abilities when they held the Bear, or otherwise used some of the New Mutant's powers during David's origin run.

The absorbed psyches seem far more sophisticated than David's stunted personality, and although Xavier claimed that Jack Wayne was David's fantasy version of John Wayne & the idealized Macho Man, Xavier was specifically unable to read the minds of David's sub personalities.

I see no evidence that David's alters really come from him or his experiences in "real life", and given that he has been shown to absorb minds, including living and dying minds in the 616, and given that David can also manipulate time lines, this seems like a modest proposal that fits all the facts.

Questions? Comments?

What is your head canon about David and his power sets?

What do you think is the status of David's Unmaking of himself before & after Secret Wars III?
What is the current explanation of the Unmaking of the Elder Gods & recovery of Bloodstones if David wasn't there to do it? Does Magik remember as well as Blindfold? Who else knows? What is the nature of Magik & Legion's relationship and their Deal & why does the SoulSword have so much effect over him? Was Magik just severely over acting when she was apparently hypnotized by Legion into saying "I'VE WASTED MY LIFE" etc?

You don't have to worry about avoiding posting to threads that others don't post often. And maybe you should just go ahead and post to less active threads as well since it might inspire others to post there too!

I never realized that Magik could have made David erase himself from existence! I guess it would be possible but I doubt it. From the end of XML Vol 2 I really got the feeling that David did it for his own will because he didn't want to put others at risk and thought that the world would be better without him.

What comes to David's powers I always pictured him as extremely powerful Omega Level psychic with tp & tk whose powers were so great that they actually affected his mind after they activated (prematurely?) because of the traumatic incident with the terrorists in his childhood.

I imagine that his most common expression of tp is to absorb the psyches of other people around him, be they mutants or humans, especially when those people are near death. This explains why he absorbed the mind of the terrorist leader Jemail Karami, who once absorbed into David's mind was able to take over David's tp powers. And this also explains when David absorbed the psyches of the New Mutants and that little girl Marci.

However I think that not all personalities inside David's mind used to be real, living people. Some of them, like Jack Wayne (in control of David's tk), Cindy (in control of David's pyrokinesis) and X/Moira (reality warping) probably are actual split personalities, possibly caused by all the traumas David has suffered throughout the years. X/Moira alluded to the fact that he/she was born in David's mind as an antibody against X-Men's attempts to erase all the personalities that had become part of David.

And what comes to all the other powers David has expressed I think that perhaps this is a result of his powerful, subconscious tk powers. In essence, when certain personality takes over David's body, his mind starts to subconsciously modify his dna, using tk, to grant him whatever powers the personality taking over believes they possess, regardless if the powered individual in question is a mutant or something else and regardless of powers they have.

So basically if David absorbed Magik's personality into his mind then whenever she took over his body it would slowly start to change to resemble her original body, including possessing Magik's powers and knowledge of spells. And if a personality created in David's mind, like X/Moira supposedly had reality warping powers then his tk would start to change his body to resemble the ideal body X/Moira would imagine for him/herself and it would start with him manifesting her powers first.

That would explain why David's appearences used to change whenever another personality took over. Of course it could have been just mental illusions to make himself look different but I prefer my theory. That would explain why he could now have pretty much any powers imaginable. And actually, before his return in New Mutants recently I don't think that David ever manifested any physical mutations. They were all psychic in nature. Perhaps all the years trapped in the AoA world he came across many dying mutants whose psyches he absorbed and thus gained the ability to manifest their physical powers.

Well, that's my head canon theory anyway! Others might not agree with it

[sifighter]

I'm definitely excited for David to have his own show, if they can just get a portion of what made X-men Legacy great then I'll be happy.

Plus I agree with everyone here, I hope that this will be the beginning of bringing David back in the comics.

[jawbreaker]

I hope its based on Spurrier's Legacy run. I wonder if Spurrier knows anything about this.

[JustAnotherFan]

I hope its based on Spurrier's Legacy run. I wonder if Spurrier knows anything about this.

CDidn't someone involved indicate that it was? I'm not sure, if it was mentioned with the announcement, might have just imagined things.

But anyways, what comes to Spurrier knowing about this I doubt he knows much more than we do. He wrote the story for Marvel but it was work for hire so I highly doubt that he would know anything more than if it will be based on his run or not. Of course it's always possible that he might be brought on board to help adapt his stories but it's doubtful. I think they would have announced if he was involved and when Marvel has previously adapted stories to MCU they haven't really used the original writers beyond minor consulting roles maybe and this isn't even Marvel doing the show. They might be involved as co-producers but it's still very much a Fox production.

[AriesWarlock]

Wow, I am very excited by these news. It was just so unexpected. If XML Vol.2 was the inspiration for this project (and really, what else could it be?) then I think it speaks well for the quality of Legion's last run and Spurrier's writing.


CNET interviews Spurrier on the show

Legion recently headlined "X-Men: Legacy" in 2012, written by British author Simon Spurrier. CNET's Crave blog spoke with Spurrier about what makes the character so compelling. "There's a long tradition of superhero characters being used as allegories in explorations of real issues, subtle or otherwise," he said.

"That's especially true of Marvel's X-Men 'mutant' characters, whose defining trait -- that they may seem different but they're still human in any way that matters -- has been very successfully used as a thematic stand-in for stories about racism, immigration, sexuality, transgenderism and so on," Spurrier says. "For me what's so wonderful about a character like David Haller is that he adds a new string to that bow, shifting the focus onto mental illness.

"The world is literally brimming with people who face daily struggles caused, or exacerbated, by their own minds," says Spurrier, "struggles which are often deepened by the ignorance or apathy of people around them. In David -- 'Legion' -- we have a character for whom this continuum of internal battles can be very neatly visualised and dramatised. With a little comicbook magic one can focus on this sort of thing without seeming maudlin or preachy.

"When handled right a character like David can open-up a whole new understanding of what it is to be 'heroic': punching the bad guys and saving the world is all well and good, but a lot of the most human challenges come from simply Living With Yourself."

http://www.cnet.com/news/fox-and-mar...tag=CADf028e5a

Welp now is the time to get the full XM:Legacy story.

Well, dude, hurry up! Comixology has a buy one get one free offer on all Marvel titles.

https://www.comixology.com/Marvel-BO...mdlQ2Fyb3VzZWw

I already got all the XML issues on comixology

You mean how he erased himself from existence except for in the mind of Blindfold (Ruth)? I loved the series but kinda disliked the ending, but only because I lost one of my favorite characters since 96'. I think the book would have sold much better had they not gone with Huat as the premier artist. I get it, some people like it, its so bad its considered abstract and artsy, but the vast majority of the runs fans couldn't stand it and to be honest, from a marketing standpoint it didn't encourage impulse buying off of the rack. You flip through that book, with zero interest in it, you'd probably never give it a chance.

You mentioned you were referring to erasing himself from existence. Since Ruth still remembers everything I am guessing it's something that can be undone. Like how after Age of X everybody was like "This did really happen?". I just wish David had undone the mediocre events of Avengers VS X-Men and save us X-Men grief, but I doubt Marvel would want that

His reality altering Obliteration of himself leaves a lot of unanswered questions for me, especially in what Magik remembers about the Obliteration of the Elder Gods. In certain ways, given that Magik Pwned the Elders, Juggernaut, Cyttorak & The Serpent, the Phoenix Force, Dormammu etc, manipulating David into Unmaking himself seems within her abilities to subtly puppeteer the Marvel Universe.

I'm also wondering about the intrinsic nature of David's powers:
My head canon is that David is a "Psychopomp", a carrier of the souls of the Dead on to another Realm.

What do you think is the status of David's Unmaking of himself before & after Secret Wars III?
What is the current explanation of the Unmaking of the Elder Gods & recovery of Bloodstones if David wasn't there to do it? Does Magik remember as well as Blindfold? Who else knows? What is the nature of Magik & Legion's relationship and their Deal & why does the SoulSword have so much effect over him? Was Magik just severely over acting when she was apparently hypnotized by Legion into saying "I'VE WASTED MY LIFE" etc?

Yeah, I was gonna mention the I'VE WASTED MY LIFE thing as he pulling her strings. Severely over acting? I don't think so. Btw, when did she pwnd the serpent, juggernaut? I only know of David pwning the elder gods.

As for your head canon theory, it's interesting but too much for me. Reminds me of that theory that Madrox's clones were actually from another dimension and when he created a dupe, an actual being would get pulled from his dimension into 616. The implications of that are just... head hurts.

I rather like the established canon that Legion is just the alpha of mutants; not only does he have hundreds of powers, all of them seem to be raised to the nth power.

I do wonder what happened to David after all universes were destroyed?

But anyways, what comes to Spurrier knowing about this I doubt he knows much more than we do. He wrote the story for Marvel but it was work for hire so I highly doubt that he would know anything more than if it will be based on his run or not. Of course it's always possible that he might be brought on board to help adapt his stories but it's doubtful. I think they would have announced if he was involved and when Marvel has previously adapted stories to MCU they haven't really used the original writers beyond minor consulting roles maybe and this isn't even Marvel doing the show. They might be involved as co-producers but it's still very much a Fox production.

I would like if Spurrier had some participation, to help nail down all sort of details.

[RLAAMJR.]

I hope we'll get to have a good actor for Legion.

[True Believer Tony]

UXN just released a spotlight on Legion's number #1 girl, Blindfold. It's a great read!

http://uncannyxmen.net/characters/blindfold

[donpricetag]

Funny, I loved the Blindfold/Legion relationship, especially how a huge chunk of it played out in the astral plane. However, I always thought seeing him and Magik attempt a relationship could have been fun. Not some grand sweeping love affair, but a bumbling, awkward, mess of uncomfortable emotions neither have much experience in. I could see Magik being repressive and unwilling, and then flip to aggressive while Legion being exploratory at first and then the voice of reason when it turned into something he wasn't expecting, or ready for. In a way we got some of that with Blindfold and him, buy I just would like to see him try to break through Magik's armor and not then just not be ready for what came afterwards.

On the other hand there was the possibility of Legion and Blindfold (fully empowered following the defeat of her brother), pairing off together, and taking the mantles of transcendent beings who spend most of their time physically in the Astral Plane with a throng of demigod-like children underfoot... The Xavier Legacy. LOL. Just some scenarios that would have been interesting to me.

[AriesWarlock]

Kinberg Calls "Legion" The "Breaking Bad" Of Comic Book Shows

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...mic-book-shows

UXN just released a spotlight on Legion's number #1 girl, Blindfold. It's a great read!

http://uncannyxmen.net/characters/blindfold

Interesting. I will read it, thanks.

[yogaflame]

How old is Legion supposed to have been? I guess it gets weird with the multiple dimensions and comas and unbeings, but...

[donpricetag]

How old is Legion supposed to have been? I guess it gets weird with the multiple dimensions and comas and unbeings, but...

I'd say when he erased himself from existence he was between 16 and 18... Though he was 16 around the time of Legion Quest. But he did die and then got resurrected. So technically couldn't have aged. He only older as he lived in this time period.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Man I miss David. He became one of my favorite character in just 24 issues, as he tried to deal with his father's legacy, what he should do to help the mutant community, and his relationship with Ruth. Seeing him just write himself out at the end was probably one of the saddest things I read in a comic series.

On the upside, at least Ruth and the Invaders still remember him.

I remember David Charles Haller as well

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

While I love David, I'd like for Marvel to let the end of Spurrier's run hold for a while.

Guess you get your wish

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Loved his Legacy series and thought Age of X was pretty good alternate.

Soon as all the tpbs are announced I'm gonna get Legion's books.

They'll be wortwhile for sure!

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I guess it's time to pull this thread out of the mothballs, eh?

CBR's and IGN's coverage of the announcement of Legion's show on FX being led by Fargo producer and Bryan Singer,here and here.

Cant wait for more information to start pouring in. All I have to say is: "Come at me bro!"

If you didnt get that, then you probably didnt read the Si Spurrier X-Men: Legacy run. I hope this leads Marvel to resurrect David and perhaps bring Blindfolkd back out of limbo. I'm really excited about this announcement... and pretty shocked.

Yes, very exciting!