Downtown Rumbles: Sharp's Scotch Bar

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[SpiderClops]

For all the complaints Black Clover gets for being super cliche and all(and many of them are valid), that was one of the most awesome scenes I've read. It's almost deconstruction level. Not something you expect in a usual shonen manga.

[Nik Hasta]

What's it deconstructing exactly? Lots of shonen have a whole "power is the only thing that matters," kind of vibe that usually gets disproved by the culmination of the series one way or another.

A huge amount of Naruto addressed this kind of question, as did Bleach.

What's the constructionist version of this scene?

[SpiderClops]

What's it deconstructing exactly?

I said almost deconstruction level.

Lots of shonen have a whole "power is the only thing that matters," kind of vibe that usually gets disproved by the culmination of the series one way or another.

But Julius is not talking about power. He's talking about how results are the only thing that matters for becoming a good leader. And most of those "power is the only thing that matters" aren't really presented as good ideologies, are they?

[Nik Hasta]

I said almost deconstruction level.

I know but that still implies that it's a deconstruction of something and I don't quite see what it's deconstructing. What's it an almost deconstruction of?

But Julius is not talking about power. He's talking about how results are the only thing that matters for becoming a good leader. And most of those "power is the only thing that matters" aren't really presented as good ideologies, are they?

I think he is talking about power in an abstract sense. The application of power in the pursuit of results. Further to that this isn't an intrinsically good ideology either. Julius is being very absolute here. Results are all that matters basically boils down to utilitarianism which can get very ethically grimey if one is not careful - can lead to fascism and its ilk.

My gut feeling would be that the lead buried here would be that Julius would be put in position wherein he has to do something morally questionable or transgressive to achieve said desired level of results. Asta then has to question the moral standing and effectiveness of his ideology and try and overcome it or stress test it.

Heck, that might be where it's going. Someone murdered all those elves who are now genociding the magical kingdom. Maybe Julius, or someone like him, did it in service of 'results' without considering the far-reaching consequences.

EDIT: See also - Odin and Hela in Thor: Ragnarok for the same kind of ideological exploration. Odin subjugated the nine worlds using Hela as a superweapon and then tried to bury her forever so his people could live with the bounty of his results without knowing the cost it took to achieve them. Eventually the consequences of those choices, in pursuit of those results, comes home and leads to the obliteration of the entire kingdom.

[SpiderClops]

I know but that still implies that it's a deconstruction of something and I don't quite see what it's deconstructing. What's it an almost deconstruction of?

That usually those kind of ideologies aren't presented as good? Or even if they are, not in such cold manner?

I think he is talking about power in an abstract sense. The application of power in the pursuit of results. Further to that this isn't an intrinsically good ideology either. Julius is being very absolute here. Results are all that matters basically boils down to utilitarianism which can get very ethically grimey if one is not careful - can lead to fascism and its ilk.

My gut feeling would be that the lead buried here would be that Julius would be put in position wherein he has to do something morally questionable or transgressive to achieve said desired level of results. Asta then has to question the moral standing and effectiveness of his ideology and try and overcome it or stress test it.

Heck, that might be where it's going. Someone murdered all those elves who are now genociding the magical kingdom. Maybe Julius, or someone like him, did it in service of 'results' without considering the far-reaching consequences.

EDIT: See also - Odin and Hela in Thor: Ragnarok for the same kind of ideological exploration. Odin subjugated the nine worlds using Hela as a superweapon and then tried to bury her forever so his people could live with the bounty of his results without knowing the cost it took to achieve them. Eventually the consequences of those choices, in pursuit of those results, comes home and leads to the obliteration of the entire kingdom.

Well, Julius is spoilers:

dead. He didn't do anything morally questionable that anyone knows of. It isn't even implied or hinted. He was a good guy through and through, for now. Though, the first magic emperor might've killed all the elves(that chapter was so confusing).

end of spoilers

But I'm not seeing this ideology directly challenged in the series as of yet.

[master of read]

i'd say it's a.............decent scene but i wouldn't say it's something akin to a deconstruction. asta asked a question and julius answered simply.

but nik brings up a good point. he says that being the magic hokage king is all about results. well, does the method of getting those results matter? it's kind of a loaded question that i don't think Black Clover is skilled enough to answer.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

It could also be that Julius is telling them power alone means nothing. You have to have a political/social plan as Emperor as well.

[master of read]

[Sharpandpointies]

Who Don't know what Anima is, but good for you if it is good.

RPG I'm running over on Rpol. We're down to Subby, Falcon, sometimes Beadle and one more, and the game has slowed to a crawl (moreso than before). I'm trying to pick up the pace, but work keeps getting in the way, dammitall. :P

Need some more players, as well.

Good news about you walking soon (maybe!) Vak!

[Crunkula]

I think Peter can't decided whether or not he's having an orgasm or suffering a stroke.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

RPG I'm running over on Rpol. We're down to Subby, Falcon, sometimes Beadle and one more, and the game has slowed to a crawl (moreso than before). I'm trying to pick up the pace, but work keeps getting in the way, dammitall. :P

Need some more players, as well.

Good news about you walking soon (maybe!) Vak!

I'd be interested in joining Sharp. As long as it's not to the level of posting required for a Cleric RP.