Downtown Rumbles: Sharp's Scotch Bar

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

If I wasn't so damn happy about this new series and the fact that it's going to be on Netflix (which means no network censorship), I'd rat you to Thanos by telling him you slept with Death! Where would you be then, You amorphous Marvel-symbiote reject?!

Pretty sure Death is literally trying to kill him.

I think we okay.

[master of read]

new fairy tail:

so that's how august, the supposed strongest man in the spriggan 12, dies? really?

sigh. i am so glad this series is almost done.

[Anarchist]

Just saw the first episode of Iron Fist.
I'd say it was decent, nothing special, but ok.

The series is getting some serious flak, the first Netflix/Marvel-Series to not be universally praised.
I wonder if it is panned rightfully, not just for supposed 'racism'.

[Nik Hasta]

Aside from the problematic racial bits of it, all the trailers made suggested that it was just godawful.

I have no interest in seeing it myself.

[Anarchist]

I don't really get it, what are the problematic racial bits?
That Danny is a white guy?

Well, that's just staying true to the Source Material.

[master of read]

I don't really get it, what are the problematic racial bits?
That Danny is a white guy?

Well, that's just staying true to the Source Material.

from the complaints i've heard about, some people wanted danny to be asian. which is.......stupid.

[Nik Hasta]

I don't really get it, what are the problematic racial bits?
That Danny is a white guy?

Well, that's just staying true to the Source Material.

I am happy to explain!

from the complaints i've heard about, some people wanted danny to be asian. which is.......stupid.

No, it isn't.

Okay, so I'm going to write a quick thing about racism in media and white cultural dominance but I'm at work so this won't be as deep as I'd like.

To burrow in to the problematic ideas of Iron Fist, we have one problem that kind of leads into the other, considerably larger problem.

The first is that Danny is a white man. This stems from the inception of the character, Iron Fist was born out of the big push of popularity of East Asian Kung Fu movies in the 70s (your Bruce Lee's et al) and the rise of Blaxploitation characters like Luke Cage. This was not a time in comics' history when they were noted for their nuanced portrayal of ethnic minorities and the character of Iron Fist, a character that draws on Tibetan/generically mystic East Asian aesthetics should have been someone who comes from that cultural background. As such you have a character who is founded on the idea of a white guy appropriating and being a vehicle for a culture that is not his own.

That's a problem, but it was the 70s so racial attitudes were terrible.

With the new series, the decision to keep Danny white is somewhat tone deaf. Nothing about Iron Fist as a character is rooted in him being white, there is nothing for the studio to gain by keeping him a white guy apart from reinforcing the cultural dominance of white people in popular media. Given that the previous two Netflix series featured central characters from marginalised communities with a "comics" space (black and female respectively) you would think they'd want to continue their streak of positive representation.

As such, what you end up with is a take on the rather unfortunate "white saviour" trope, wherein Danny is somehow more closely rooted to a given culture than members of that culture. This is kind of insulting to persons of that culture because the implicit message is that contemporary media is only interested in you, your people and your culture as a backdrop to the adventures of white guy.

This is, in very brief terms, the issue with white cultural hegemony and why Iron Fist being a white dude is kind of a poor decision.

[master of read]

not saying that was the overall reason why. that's just what i heard myself.

but good write up, nonetheless.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Ignoring the racial side of the dislike for a moment... Is the show just lackluster in general?

[Beadle]

I am happy to explain!



No, it isn't.

Okay, so I'm going to write a quick thing about racism in media and white cultural dominance but I'm at work so this won't be as deep as I'd like.

To burrow in to the problematic ideas of Iron Fist, we have one problem that kind of leads into the other, considerably larger problem.

The first is that Danny is a white man. This stems from the inception of the character, Iron Fist was born out of the big push of popularity of East Asian Kung Fu movies in the 70s (your Bruce Lee's et al) and the rise of Blaxploitation characters like Luke Cage. This was not a time in comics' history when they were noted for their nuanced portrayal of ethnic minorities and the character of Iron Fist, a character that draws on Tibetan/generically mystic East Asian aesthetics should have been someone who comes from that cultural background. As such you have a character who is founded on the idea of a white guy appropriating and being a vehicle for a culture that is not his own.

That's a problem, but it was the 70s so racial attitudes were terrible.

With the new series, the decision to keep Danny white is somewhat tone deaf. Nothing about Iron Fist as a character is rooted in him being white, there is nothing for the studio to gain by keeping him a white guy apart from reinforcing the cultural dominance of white people in popular media. Given that the previous two Netflix series featured central characters from marginalised communities with a "comics" space (black and female respectively) you would think they'd want to continue their streak of positive representation.

As such, what you end up with is a take on the rather unfortunate "white saviour" trope, wherein Danny is somehow more closely rooted to a given culture than members of that culture. This is kind of insulting to persons of that culture because the implicit message is that contemporary media is only interested in you, your people and your culture as a backdrop to the adventures of white guy.

This is, in very brief terms, the issue with white cultural hegemony and why Iron Fist being a white dude is kind of a poor decision.

Really good write-up, Nik. And I think the Asian cultural issue is heightened by the unfortunate timing of following the MCU's most recent movie (Dr Strange), where The Ancient One was portrayed by a white British actress.

I don't think the white racial hegemony accusation is one that has historically been levelled at the MCU. After all, Marvel replaced the historically-white Nick Fury with the SLJ version, and they actually received significant criticism for having a black Heimdall.

Unfortunately the Asian demographic hasn't really had that same positive profile in the MCU, so I can understand the concern, particularly with the two properties being so closely-timed.

[Nik Hasta]

Ignoring the racial side of the dislike for a moment... Is the show just lackluster in general?

Reports have been that that is the case sadly.

Like I said, trailers looked crappy for my money, fight choreography looked bad, acting looked sub-par, cinematography looked generic, colour palette looked limited. Just didn't excite me at all.

Which is a shame because I really like Iron Fist and I wanted this to be good.

[Nik Hasta]

Really good write-up, Nik. And I think the Asian cultural issue is heightened by the unfortunate timing of following the MCU's most recent movie (Dr Strange), where The Ancient One was portrayed by a white British actress.

I don't think the white racial hegemony accusation is one that has historically been levelled at the MCU. After all, Marvel replaced the historically-white Nick Fury with the SLJ version, and they actually received significant criticism for having a black Heimdall.

Unfortunately the Asian demographic hasn't really had that same positive profile in the MCU, so I can understand the concern, particularly with the two properties being so closely-timed.

Agreed, I'll happily admit that Marvel has been doing well in trying to push their traditionally very whitebread properties toward greater diversity.

Iron Fist just seems a bit of a misstep. Underrepresentation in the Asian community is becoming more pronounced sadly.

[Iron_Twister]

Huh, been suddenly wanting to get back to reading Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles series again.

Recall my memories of the first novel the Winter King.

...Derfel Cadarn was a god damn badass.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

I'll fight you too!

Cthulhu will take all comers!

It won't be a fight, hoss. I'll just bribe you.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Iron Fist can't be worse than Luke Cage was. Talk about a disappointment on every level except the acting. Colter, Dawson, and several of the others did a good job with drek all script/reasoning they had to work with.