What was the worst thing to come out of Azzarello's run?

[Blacksun]

You are extrapolating a lot of information. We don't know that Hera was ever a "patron" only that she is an immortal of very dubious character. Was Hippolyta wrong to sleep with a married man(God) ... I suppose that depends on an individual's moral compass and the role of monogamy in the society in question. From Hypollyta's point of view these are constructs that don't really exist (Amazons have shown no inclination that marriage or monogamy are societal norms). Zeus is much more the "at fault" character from any angle you look at this situation. Even Zola figured that out when she called Hera out for being a child murdering psychopath who takes her marital frustrations out on the individuals most innocent of the "crimes" her husband. As for allowing the sex raids, I'm not sure we can call her morally wrong here either. She's faced with population and secrecy issues which threaten the existence of her entire species. I don't love the solution the Amazons came up with here, but at the very least it's clear that there are rules being enforced (only happens once every 33 years, men must die, boy children must be given up ... all of these things speak to it not being a total free for all). I have no problem with her making morally ambiguous decisions As the military and political leader of her people when faced with maintaining their society, it's a pretty realistic response when you think about it.

even if hipollyta doesn't believe in monogamy (we don't know that), sleep with another man that is on what was suppossed to be a committed and close relationship still wrong. Different from Zola, hippolyta knew very well what she was doing. I think that Azz did something wrong with hippolyta

[Awonder]

I don't really think so. The context we are talking about is someone laying out that Hippolyta is essentially morally bankrupt.

If the the "committed" man she slept with has fathered a handful of children(that his "wife" is aware of), it's not like it's the same thing as a couple divorcing because of a single affair.

It's an "apples/oranges" sort of a point.

I wouldn't say that morally wrong is morally bankrupt. And, like I said above, Hippolyta seems to think she wronged Hera by sleeping with Zeus even though Hippolyta knew Zeus had cheated many, many times before.

[numberthirty]

I wouldn't say that morally wrong is morally bankrupt. And, like I said above, Hippolyta seems to think she wronged Hera by sleeping with Zeus even though Hippolyta knew Zeus had cheated many, many times before.

Actually, I'm not sure we are ever privy to if Hippolyta was aware of the many affairs Zeus had had before her. While it's not outside of the realm of possibility, I'm pretty sure we never actually know.

I just have a problem with the idea of chalking up being someones fifth or sixth "person on the side" as some massive moral failing.

If anything, Hera being willing to try to apologize says a great deal about her moral character. Most folks would just say "Are you seriously going to call me on being one of many people your so-called husband has slept with"?

[Dr. Poison]

She seems to think she wronged Hera. Or do you think she was insincere in asking for forgiveness?



Yes, we can call her "morally wrong." A woman does not have the right to kill a man she sleeps with just because she wants to make sure he doesn't follow her home. Even with Azzarello choosing to add a need for reproduction, the Amazons had other options available to them (eg, drunken, anonymous sex is quite common in ports around the globe). Azzarello simply chose the "dirt" for the shallow spectacle of it, not because it makes more sense.

This.^^^ Plus if Hera isn't the Amazons Patron goddess then why did she tell Orion that the Amazons were sacred to her? As for the raids, there is no way that practice was anything but morally bereft and to try to justify it based on some political agenda astonishes me but then again, we have a lot of corrupt political leaders in this country/world that Hippolyta now falls right in line with. The ends do not justify the means here no matter what type of spin is put on it whether its closer to actual Greek myth, makes the Amazons more relatable because they're not "perfect" any more, or as part of some messed up political agenda. Azzarello has scarred Hippolyta and the Amazons that participated in the raids beyond redemption for me at the very least. They're no better than the Cheetah or Queen Clea at this point.

[Dr. Poison]

Actually, I'm not sure we are ever privy to if Hippolyta was aware of the many affairs Zeus had had before her. While it's not outside of the realm of possibility, I'm pretty sure we never actually know.

I just have a problem with the idea of chalking up being someones fifth or sixth "person on the side" as some massive moral failing.

If anything, Hera being willing to try to apologize says a great deal about her moral character. Most folks would just say "Are you seriously going to call me on being one of many people your so-called husband has slept with"?

And I think that anyone faced with a near omnipotent angry goddess is going to say whatever they think will get them off the hook or at the very least, a lighter punishment from said goddess. Hippolyta didn't show one ounce of regret until she was busted by Hera. If Hippolyta would have said something along the lines of what you mentioned, she would have gotten a lot worse from Hera than being turned into a clay statue.

[Blacksun]

And I think that anyone faced with a near omnipotent angry goddess is going to say whatever they think will get them off the hook or at the very least, a lighter punishment from said goddess. Hippolyta didn't show one ounce of regret until she was busted by Hera. If Hippolyta would have said something along the lines of what you mentioned, she would have gotten a lot worse from Hera than being turned into a clay statue.

Many people would still be disrespectiful no matter if it could get worse.

[numberthirty]

Plus if Hera isn't the Amazons Patron goddess then why did she tell Orion that the Amazons were sacred to her?

Because Diana charged her with protecting the island while she was away and Hera is a massive drama queen.

[Dr. Poison]

Because Diana charged her with protecting the island while she was away and Hera is a massive drama queen.

Are you trying to be funny again or serious this time around?

[Javier Velasco]

Actually, I'm not sure we are ever privy to if Hippolyta was aware of the many affairs Zeus had had before her. While it's not outside of the realm of possibility, I'm pretty sure we never actually know.

Well, seeing that Apollo, Artemis, Athene, Dionysysis, Hermes, Herakles are all products of Zeus' affairs, I am pretty sure Hippolyta was aware. Azz may have made his Amazons into a less intellectually curious lot, but I would hope they had a rudimentary knowledge of their own religion.

[Dr. Poison]

Many people would still be disrespectiful no matter if it could get worse.

That would be very foolish of them IMO.

[numberthirty]

Because Diana charged her with protecting the island while she was away and Hera is a massive drama queen.

Are you trying to be funny again or serious this time around?

Did you read the last four issues?

[numberthirty]

Well, seeing that Apollo, Artemis, Athene, Dionysysis, Hermes, Herakles are all products of Zeus' affairs, I am pretty sure Hippolyta was aware. Azz may have made his Amazons into a less intellectually curious lot, but I would hope they had a rudimentary knowledge of their own religion.

Maybe. I don't know that we've seen bloodlines/how much the Amazons play into what they were in pre-"New52" continuity.

[Dr. Poison]

Did you read the last four issues?

I read 1 - 5, 14, 35, and the Secret Origin. I know that Diana charged Hera with guarding the island but I still don't think that would be enough to make Hera say the Amazons were sacred to her. Knowing the drama queen that she is, she'd probably say something along the lines of "These women are beneath me but I'm sworn to protect them until Diana returns...." if it was just about what Diana asked her to do.

[numberthirty]

Here's the thing. When Hera says that(and for that matter, the whole time she is on the island), not one Amazon actually says anything about Hera being their patron god. Even when she says they are "sacred" to her, not a peep.

[Dr. Poison]

Here's the thing. When Hera says that(and for that matter, the whole time she is on the island), not one Amazon actually says anything about Hera being their patron god. Even when she says they are "sacred" to her, not a peep.

Well, I'd imagine that after said patron goddess turned them all into snakes, they probably aren't viewing her in a positive light any more.