Netflix's Defenders TV Series

[Daredevil is Legend]

Punisher is one of those things that conflicts me. He's probably my favourite character and I'd love Marvel to give him a show but I'm not sure I see him fitting in the MCU. The Punisher is about as violent a character Marvel has, he wouldn't be killing one or two guys a season, he should have a massive body count by the end of the first episode. Add in things like intense blowtorch torture scenes or whatever and I'm not sure he is a viable inclusion in the MCU.

I guess we'll see how dark/gritty Marvel is willing to go with the Netflix shows but I suspect they'll operate within the confines of what's been established in the movies and AoS.

I think he'll appear on the Netflix show.As you just pointed out he's too violent from tv.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

Sure, but Punisher killing is Plans A through Z. Arrow will kill if (he believes) he needs to, Coulson knew how dangerous Garrett was before and was going to be worse still, yet in the second season they spent a while trying to catch Creel not kill him. Punisher on the other hand would go straight to guns blazing, wipe them out' and that would get tired fast.

... as is the plan of most action heroes. Heroes killing villains is what they tended to do before the CCA came about.

Coulson shot Garrett in the back and made a quip about finding the gun. He was criminally insane but rather than lock him up like Ward, he straight up killed him from behind. Coulson is arguably the star of the show along with Skye but he killed Garrett rather than lock him up or turn him into the authorities. So let's not pretend they don't do it on that show, although I will admit murder for laughs is not exactly the Punisher's M.O.

I actually feel like Law Abiding Citizen is the best "Punisher" movie out there, a Punisher locked up but still getting vengeance, even getting locked up on purpose as part of his plan.

ABC is broadcast network TV, if Daredevil and Kingpin are involved in the Netflix series, having Frank Castle over there beyond the limits of broadcast TV makes more sense.

Fundamentally the Punisher and SHIELD agents will act differently. One is a murdering vigilante, one is a group of agents committed to fulfilling their orders as directed by Coulson who was empowered by Nick Fury. Punisher kills, SHIELD capture/kill/research based on their orders. Now, Coulson chasing down Punisher when he kills a SHIELD target before they can get to them and the comparison of the one man army war veteran and soldier/secret agent with his team of spies and their differing agendas would be interesting but obviously the Punisher is the Punisher. You're a bad guy, he sees you, you're dead. No secret forcefield walled cells, no analysing their DNA, no satellite tracking... just Micro, a black van and an arsenal. Hell, he could have been tracking the Rising Tide too. I think Skye actually mentioned Micro once back in season 1.

Incidentally, I've just reminded myself of the awesome Punisher van toy I used to have... God, I loved that thing.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

I agree with this.

However, I believe they will keep them in tone with the rest of the MCU to avoid cutting out some of the audience.

I think this is an error on your part. They went with Netflix because of the autonomy they offer. Also considering the tone of Alias and Daredevil at times in the past, I think Netflix is the most suitable medium. They wouldn't allow Kingpin to crush someone's skull or Jessica Jones to make a booty call that hurts so good in a strange way with Luke Cage on ABC. I also very much doubt the Born Again story with the prostitution and junkies would make the cut either. I think they've chosen Netflix consciously because they know it is fairly unrestricted.

[Lee Stone]

I think this is an error on your part. They went with Netflix because of the autonomy they offer. Also considering the tone of Alias and Daredevil at times in the past, I think Netflix is the most suitable medium. They wouldn't allow Kingpin to crush someone's skull or Jessica Jones to make a booty call that hurts so good in a strange way with Luke Cage on ABC. I also very much doubt the Born Again story with the prostitution and junkies would make the cut either. I think they've chosen Netflix consciously because they know it is fairly unrestricted.

So, an MCU MAX?

[Chilli_P]

When these Netflix series' were first announced I was pleased, but part of me thought it would have made more sense to group Luke Cage & Iron Fist as 'Heroes for Hire' (I still think it would make more sense) and give The Punisher the fourth series. Now though, I'm more inclined to believe he'd be a great presence as a recurring foil / antagonist in each show.

[marvelguy25]

Guys if you watch agents of shield it is exactly a violent show. I believe frank would do well on the small screen in the marvel love action universe.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

So, an MCU MAX?

I believe so, yes. If the MCU was a video store, Avengers are the store front, Agents of SHIELD is the front door, GOTG is the quirky sci fi section and the Netflix series will be the curtained off back room for over 18s who know the owner.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

He's normally a defense attorney but being a prosecutor could be more interesting for the show.

He tends to prosecute those he knows are guilty as Daredevil and uses the alter ego to get evidence at times, while defending those he believes are innocent based on listening to their pulses when he goes to his office. He's basically a human lie detector as well as a bad ass ninja with a telescoping cane.

[Vic Vega]

Agent Carter seems to be pretty quick on the trigger and that is on network air.

Is the Punisher that much more murderous than the lead in Person of Interest?

Or first season Ollie Queen in Arrow?

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

Agent Carter seems to be pretty quick on the trigger and that is on network air.

Is the Punisher that much more murderous than the lead in Person of Interest?

Or first season Ollie Queen in Arrow?

Not really, depends on the iteration. 616 Marvel Frank is more merciful at times than the Garth Ennis MAX version and in the 70s and 80s he was more honourable... it was in the 90s he turned into more of a numbskull constant killer without any moral compass at all. Every time Punisher and Wolverine crossed over was a bad time for me.

[Dog]

I believe so, yes. If the MCU was a video store, Avengers are the store front, Agents of SHIELD is the front door, GOTG is the quirky sci fi section and the Netflix series will be the curtained off back room for over 18s who know the owner.

It's porno?

[Punisher007]

AOS just had a sadistic Nazi literally butcher a woman alive in order to harvest her organs/blood/etc to keep himself from aging. TWS had people getting shot in the face, a guy going splat against a speeding truck, another guy getting kicked into a jet engine, arms being broken (with appropriate sound effects), etc. So it's not like they're not willing to go dark. Even GOTG, which was pretty humorous overall, had some freaking crap in it.

[ed2962]

I think the Netflix deal was more about opportunities and exposure to a new audience. The fact is that more and more people are discovering television shows thru sources like Hulu and Nteflix etc. Appointment TV is gradually fading away. And on Netflix the whole season is there, you're less likely to miss an episode cuz the schedule was changed or preempted or whatever.

Plus like a few people have already pointed out, network tv can get pretty dark (Law and Order SUV, Criminal Minds etc).


And I just thought of this...watered down versions of the Punisher, Blade and Morbius made appearances on the 90's Spiderman cartoon and that's a show where the lead wasn't allowed to hit people with a closed fist. So it's not like Marvel wouldn't "soften" their characters if it's profitable.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

It's porno?

I was talking more X rated B movie gritty stuff, Grindhouse and exploitation stuff that worked that aired in the 60s and 70s but wouldn't be booked as matinees. Iron Fist reeks of B movie kung fu, Luke Cage is basically Marvel's Black Dynamite, Alias was gritty, exploitation gumshoe detective stuff with a touch of psycho thriller, Daredevil is about a blind American ninja like Michael Dudikoff and Stevie Wonder had a lovechild in Scorcese's 70s New York. I'm talking Deathrace 3000 and Troma stuff, not Vivid Video.

X rated pornos weren't generally stocked at my video shop. Those were mail order, asking if they kept adult purchases under the counter or something acquired by going to a blue movie store. You couldn't rent movies and pornos at the same stores in my experience.

The assumption I'd act under would be Netflix assumes if you have an account, you are a person with a bank account over 18/21 depending on territorial law restrictions, so in turn Netflix is akin to the guy that nods at you to go into the X rated or unrated section because they know you're old enough to indulge in some more adult oriented entertainment.

Saying that, if Deborah Ann Woll actually went method for Karen Page's junkie porn star period... I wouldn't complain. She's a solid actress with a great body that I wish I had seen more of on True Blood. Although if I am realistic I don't see them doing Born Again until maybe season 2 or 3. Daredevil Yellow and aspects of Miller's Stick arc/Man Without Fear mini seem to be the basis for season 1.

[responsarbre]

From what I've read, the Netflix shows are going to be more dark and gritty than, say, Agents of SHIELD and the movies, but they'll still basically have PG-13 content, not R or TV-MA or anything like that. I think Marvel/Disney has a vested interest in keeping everything under their brand accessible to families.