Wonder Woman's "Secret" Feminist History

[Jim Kelly]

When I pick up a modern comic book, I'm often knocked back on my heels by the graphic violence and over the top mayhem. Yet this is the accepted norm in comics today. But when readers, who have become inured to the shock value of these modern comics, comment on the original Wonder Woman comics, it's like they become Victorian grandmothers.

Not to say there isn't some kink in Marston's Wonder Woman (he was a kinky guy), but kink always relates to things in the real world somehow. These fetishes don't just arrive out of thin air. I'm astounded that readers--and even people in the comic book industry--can't look beyond the kink to the deeper meaning in a woman breaking free of her bonds. Hm, a woman chained up that somehow liberates herself from bondage? What could that mean?

The generation of Marston and Gaines would have seen images of Harry Houdini performing stunts just like Wonder Woman. Did people back then immediately see this as only a kinky fetish and not an amazing feat of human daring?

Virtually every issue of Jack Kirby's MISTER MIRACLE shows the escape artist breaking through all manner of bondage to free himself. Yet I don't remember ever seeing articles written about the kink in MISTER MIRACLE or what that says about Jack Kirby's personal life.

If an African-American magician performed on stage a superior stunt of escape artistry--freeing himself from manacles, chains and a hood under water--would we see this as only perpetuating racist stereotypes? I don't think so. We definitely would make the assocication with slavery, but we'd see the perforrmance as a symbol of African-American liberation from slavey. In other words, we'd rightly see the positive message that the escape artist was trying to convey--if we saw any message in it beyond entertainment. The idea of a African-American man breaking free of bondage is ultimately postitive.

But if a woman is put in the exact same situation. It's too much. Heavens to Betsy, such a scandal to see a woman in bondage. My stars and garters, shame shame.

As for Steve and Superman. In the Marston comics, Steve was a companion, but Diana did not want him as a boyfriend because she was dedicated to her mission. If Diana had taken up with Steve, then she would have had to surrender her role as Wonder Woman and she wasn't willing to do that. Likewise, the classic Superman maintained that he couldn't be with any one woman, because his mission as Superman took priority. He did date women, but there was never a ring in it for the single lady.

[ed2962]

When I pick up a modern comic book, I'm often knocked back on my heels by the graphic violence and over the top mayhem. Yet this is the accepted norm in comics today. But when readers, who have become inured to the shock value of these modern comics, comment on the original Wonder Woman comics, it's like they become Victorian grandmothers.

Not to say there isn't some kink in Marston's Wonder Woman (he was a kinky guy), but kink always relates to things in the real world somehow. These fetishes don't just arrive out of thin air. I'm astounded that readers--and even people in the comic book industry--can't look beyond the kink to the deeper meaning in a woman breaking free of her bonds. Hm, a woman chained up that somehow liberates herself from bondage? What could that mean?

The generation of Marston and Gaines would have seen images of Harry Houdini performing stunts just like Wonder Woman. Did people back then immediately see this as only a kinky fetish and not an amazing feat of human daring?

Virtually every issue of Jack Kirby's MISTER MIRACLE shows the escape artist breaking through all manner of bondage to free himself. Yet I don't remember ever seeing articles written about the kink in MISTER MIRACLE or what that says about Jack Kirby's personal life.

If an African-American magician performed on stage a superior stunt of escape artistry--freeing himself from manacles, chains and a hood under water--would we see this as only perpetuating racist stereotypes? I don't think so. We definitely would make the assocication with slavery, but we'd see the perforrmance as a symbol of African-American liberation from slavey. In other words, we'd rightly see the positive message that the escape artist was trying to convey--if we saw any message in it beyond entertainment. The idea of a African-American man breaking free of bondage is ultimately postitive.

But if a woman is put in the exact same situation. It's too much. Heavens to Betsy, such a scandal to see a woman in bondage. My stars and garters, shame shame.

As for Steve and Superman. In the Marston comics, Steve was a companion, but Diana did not want him as a boyfriend because she was dedicated to her mission. If Diana had taken up with Steve, then she would have had to surrender her role as Wonder Woman and she wasn't willing to do that. Likewise, the classic Superman maintained that he couldn't be with any one woman, because his mission as Superman took priority. He did date women, but there was never a ring in it for the single lady.

Thing is though, Marston was a kinky guy in his real life and he lived a lifestyle that even today would be considered unconventional.

With Jack Kirby, fans don't look at Mr Miracle and look for his sexual kinks but people do look at say Ben Grimm and think "Oh, this must be a reference to Jack's growing up Jewish in New York, etc" there's also "Izzy Cohen" in the Howling Commandos, the "Hail Hyrda" salute being similar to "Heil Hitler"...connect that to the fact that Jack fought in WW2...

[Jim Kelly]

Thing is though, Marston was a kinky guy in his real life and he lived a lifestyle that even today would be considered unconventional.

With Jack Kirby, fans don't look at Mr Miracle and look for his sexual kinks but people do look at say Ben Grimm and think "Oh, this must be a reference to Jack's growing up Jewish in New York, etc" there's also "Izzy Cohen" in the Howling Commandos, the "Hail Hyrda" salute being similar to "Heil Hitler"...connect that to the fact that Jack fought in WW2...

So do you think knowing this helps or does it maybe lead us astray to make assumptions that could well be incorrect--and don't help make the work any better? I was thinking about AMADEUS. I saw that back in the day on stage and in the movie theatre. At the time, I thought it was fantastic and I maybe developed a greater interest in Mozart than I already had. But as the years go by, it seems clearer and clearer that it really doesn't give one a true appreciaton for Mozart's genius, it just takes you down blind alleys.

The best way to appreciate Mozart is to listen to his music and sees his operas.

I don't think there's anyone that doesn't have some kink. Most people don't let them out, because it could destroy them. Look at Anthony Wiener (and that's a rather mild example). If we're going to single out people for their brand of kink and put them under the microscope--it just seems wrong. Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar are not exactly clean when it comes to skeletons in the closet--yet their "kinks" seem to give them street cred. While Marston's kinks open the door for ridicule. Is there a kink pecking order?

[ed2962]

So do you think knowing this helps or does it maybe lead us astray to make assumptions that could well be incorrect--and don't help make the work any better? I was thinking about AMADEUS. I saw that back in the day on stage and in the movie theatre. At the time, I thought it was fantastic and I maybe developed a greater interest in Mozart than I already had. But as the years go by, it seems clearer and clearer that it really doesn't give one a true appreciaton for Mozart's genius, it just takes you down blind alleys.

The best way to appreciate Mozart is to listen to his music and sees his operas.

I don't think there's anyone that doesn't have some kink. Most people don't let them out, because it could destroy them. Look at Anthony Wiener (and that's a rather mild example). If we're going to single out people for their brand of kink and put them under the microscope--it just seems wrong. Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar are not exactly clean when it comes to skeletons in the closet--yet their "kinks" seem to give them street cred. While Marston's kinks open the door for ridicule. Is there a kink pecking order?

Knowing about a creator's personal life, fans just naturally look for clues in the creator's work. If it had come out that Marston had a thing for redheads, I'm sure people would be pointing out how obsessed he was and like you suggest, some fans would be all, "That crazy guy and his redheads! It's all the place!"

I'm not sure if Marston's singled out for ridicule, but if he's analyzed a little more than the other writers you named, I'd say it's probably more due to that fact that Wonder Woman is one of the biggest and pop culture icons in the world.

[Darius]

Is there a kink pecking order?

Yes of course ... It's certainly different for each individual, for some bondage may seem mainstream today, but in the 1940s it was a much more hidden culture. Heck there are "degrees" within the BDSM culture today that Marston probably would never have dreamed of

People of the time probably didn't really recognize the bondage themes Marston inserted because the feminist themes were so much more overt, but now they are quiet obvious. Imagine if you found out the creators of Pokemon were also Plushophiles (plushies) ... It would give entire thing a while new meaning to you.

[Jim Kelly]

What I've read about Marston is that he had essentially two wives. Not really, because he was only legally wed to one woman, but there was another woman who was in his life and the whole family got along with each other.

Now that might seem unusual--but I think the unusual bit is that the women got along with each other. There are millions of men who have multiple partners at the same time--sometimes both women are fine with it, sometimes not.

But I've never heard that there was a BDSM aspect to those relationships. Maybe there was and it's been written about and I haven't read about it. There's isn't an obvious linkage between preferring more than one partner and preferring BDSM. It's a real stretch to try to link the one thing with the other and using the comic books drawn by H.G. Peter to do so (not to mention all the other men and women who worked on Wonder Woman at that time).

Anyway, as long as everyone is a consenting adult, I don't see the harm.

If you ask me there's a lot of BDSM in popular myths and stories; however, I don't think that detracts from their value as myths and stories--it just adds another dimension. But for some readers it's all they can think about--it's like they're thirteen years old and they've just found a VICTORIA'S SECRET catalogue under the sofa cushions.

[borntohula]

I just read the book. Very well written and interesting.

Even if the book is heavy on story of feminism (not sure how interesting that is to some WW readers), I'd still recommend it to anyone with an interest in the character.

While Marston's feminism comes off as a fetish, there's no denying he was toying around with some interesting concepts and ideas while at it. Which makes for an interesting contradiction, but also a telling one. There's all sorts of feminists.

For example Marston himself didn't for example shy away from telling women off based on what he himself thought was best for them (when being questioned about all the tying up of women etc.), but the book does a good job describing this. Putting it into relation to his ego, ideas and other bits instead of quickly writing it off as sexism or such.

I really liked the bits on the book of different kinds of imagery. For example Wonder Woman on horse being inspired by pictures of Inez Milholland (who also most likely inspired Chiang's WW24 cover).

Thing is though, Marston was a kinky guy in his real life and he lived a lifestyle that even today would be considered unconventional.

With Jack Kirby, fans don't look at Mr Miracle and look for his sexual kinks but people do look at say Ben Grimm and think "Oh, this must be a reference to Jack's growing up Jewish in New York, etc" there's also "Izzy Cohen" in the Howling Commandos, the "Hail Hyrda" salute being similar to "Heil Hitler"...connect that to the fact that Jack fought in WW2...

Jack clearly liked strong (and drawing curvy) women, but clearly not in the same way as Marston did.

[Darius]

What I've read about Marston is that he had essentially two wives. Not really, because he was only legally wed to one woman, but there was another woman who was in his life and the whole family got along with each other.

Now that might seem unusual--but I think the unusual bit is that the women got along with each other. There are millions of men who have multiple partners at the same time--sometimes both women are fine with it, sometimes not.

But I've never heard that there was a BDSM aspect to those relationships. Maybe there was and it's been written about and I haven't read about it. There's isn't an obvious linkage between preferring more than one partner and preferring BDSM. It's a real stretch to try to link the one thing with the other and using the comic books drawn by H.G. Peter to do so (not to mention all the other men and women who worked on Wonder Woman at that time).

Anyway, as long as everyone is a consenting adult, I don't see the harm.

If you ask me there's a lot of BDSM in popular myths and stories; however, I don't think that detracts from their value as myths and stories--it just adds another dimension. But for some readers it's all they can think about--it's like they're thirteen years old and they've just found a VICTORIA'S SECRET catalogue under the sofa cushions.

He had children with both women and the entire family lived together even after his death as well. As to the bondage themes, it's pretty well documented stuff ... Marston wove into the core of WW the idea of "loving submission" and in nearly every issue depicted women being bound in complicated ropes, he even named the knots and such in many issues. There is little question that Marston was a bondage enthusiast. And Peter's style fit right in ... He modeled his art from Victorian era illustrated porn! It is one of the reasons WW was so heavily called out during the formation of the CCA in the 1950s. That and the alleged lesbian undertones of the Amazons and Holliday Girls... But given all the spanking they did to one another and how that led to obvious pleasur, I can't say that's shocking either.

Aside from this book there are at least 2 others that discuss these topics ... Tim Hanley's WW Unbound and Philip Sandifer's A Golden Thread. I believe Hanley does an actual breakdown of average number of panels in which women are tied up in his book

[Jim Kelly]

I'll have to get that book and read it.

I just don't know enough to say that Marston was practicing BDSM. It could just have been his fantasy that he never practiced in real life or even wanted to practice in real life. Not knowing, I can't go out on that limb.

If I did know he was into it, I wouldn't judge him. I've known people who are into BDSM and they're good people--almost boring otherwise. There's a strict code to BDSM--it's not abuse--and there has to be a lot of respect and mutual understanding for it to work. Anyone who doesn't receive consent and agree to terms is just a criminal and an abuser--and it's an insult to the good people who practice BDSM, when others hide behind that defence so they can commit criminal acts.

My father had pin-up calendars of women in various states of undress in his workshop, when I was growing up. I wouldn't extrapolate from that to say my father was actively seducing women and maintaining a whole other life that we didn't know about. But doubtless, he had an active fantasy life.

It doesn't bother me that there's bondage and submission in Marston's fantasy world of Wonder Woman. I think that's a mark of genius--to so fully integrate ones fantasies and philosophies in a whole work. What concerns me is that the conversation stops at the bondage and doesn't go beyond it. It's great to observe that Mozart's THE MAGIC FLUTE appropriates the practices of the Masons, but a thesis needs to go beyond that simple fact to draw out a larger argument. Okay, so how does this motive contribute to the artwork and transcend it to achieve something far beyond those practices?

Because it's clear to me that Marston and Peter created something more than a guide book on tying knots.

[Darius]

I'll have to get that book and read it.

I just don't know enough to say that Marston was practicing BDSM. It could just have been his fantasy that he never practiced in real life or even wanted to practice in real life. Not knowing, I can't go out on that limb.

If I did know he was into it, I wouldn't judge him. I've known people who are into BDSM and they're good people--almost boring otherwise. There's a strict code to BDSM--it's not abuse--and there has to be a lot of respect and mutual understanding for it to work. Anyone who doesn't receive consent and agree to terms is just a criminal and an abuser--and it's an insult to the good people who practice BDSM, when others hide behind that defence so they can commit criminal acts.

My father had pin-up calendars of women in various states of undress in his workshop, when I was growing up. I wouldn't extrapolate from that to say my father was actively seducing women and maintaining a whole other life that we didn't know about. But doubtless, he had an active fantasy life.

It doesn't bother me that there's bondage and submission in Marston's fantasy world of Wonder Woman. I think that's a mark of genius--to so fully integrate ones fantasies and philosophies in a whole work. What concerns me is that the conversation stops at the bondage and doesn't go beyond it. It's great to observe that Mozart's THE MAGIC FLUTE appropriates the practices of the Masons, but a thesis needs to go beyond that simple fact to draw out a larger argument. Okay, so how does this motive contribute to the artwork and transcend it to achieve something far beyond those practices?

Because it's clear to me that Marston and Peter created something more than a guide book on tying knots.

Well obviously the character had many meanings well beyond BDSM and Feminism

For the record, I make no judgment on BDSM ... or any sexual interplay between consenting adults! Have at it in whatever way makes you happy as far as I'm concerned, I simply find Marston's overt use of it in the comic somewhat amazing given the times in which he was publishing. It's really too bad that DC felt forced to distance themselves from what he had created after his death.

Marston's sex life is really irrelevant to most as he clearly kept the facts hidden well behind closed doors ... but it's very clear that he knew what he was doing with the themes and he had written other works, both as a professional and as a fiction author that included these same themes. He was well documented in his belief that loving submission was a psychological principle. If you are interested in the man and the character both books I mentioned earlier are pretty good reads ... both have some insight into Marston's and Peter's professional life prior to WW and there is some good stuff on the differences between them and the rest of the comics industry of the age (I think that's more specific in Golden Thread). I find it fascinating how these things happen!

I plan on reading Lepore's book over the holidays.

[David B.]

A lot of Marston's ideas were symbolic, bondage included. Like Trina Robbins wrote to Tim Hanley about an essay on WW I saw online: "she was tied to show she could free herself".

Plus I don't think bondage was so rare in popular culture before WW2: how many pulp covers, movies and comics were featuring half-naked women, tied and in imminent danger?

Like Jim, I am also surprised to see a lot of people embarrassed by the material, sometimes even mocking it, but have no problem with WW ripping a centaur in two with her bare hands; they also watch games of thrones with its never-ending succession of boobs, rapes and slaughters, but somehow golden age WW is considered for pervert only.

[Jim Kelly]

I once dropped in on a BDSM seminar and it was all about this hardware store kind of stuff and all the men there were these hardware store dads. I never was into the hardware store scene, but my father would often drag me along with him on weekends when I was a kid and I'd be bored out of my skull as he looked at three penny nails and drill bits and whatever else they sell at hardware stores. Just so boring. But this is what the guys were like at the BDSM seminar--I got the feeling they could talk about crossbeams and load bearing walls for hours and never get bored with the subject. Whereas, I just found it sleep-inducing. So this is the kind of mentality that I think is attracted to those sports--very technical, problem solving, task oriented, worker types.

Maybe the quandary for some people is they see submission and domination as anti-feminist, whereas Wonder Woman is supposed to be pro-feminist. But BDSM is really just role play and the sub is in control of the scene. The dom is working to give the sub the kind of experience that he or she craves. So that power reversal is very interesting as it applies to the traditional roles of men and women. Wonder Woman was challenging the accepted norm--so any corresponding fantasy that challenged the norm was probably attractive to Marston. I think it's much more interesting that the classic Wonder Woman goes against expectations--whereas modern comic book makers can't seem to go outside the lines and they always want to make WW fit into set norms.

[Darius]

A lot of Marston's ideas were symbolic, bondage included. Like Trina Robbins wrote to Tim Hanley about an essay on WW I saw online: "she was tied to show she could free herself".

Plus I don't think bondage was so rare in popular culture before WW2: how many pulp covers, movies and comics were featuring half-naked women, tied and in imminent danger?

Like Jim, I am also surprised to see a lot of people embarrassed by the material, sometimes even mocking it, but have no problem with WW ripping a centaur in two with her bare hands; they also watch games of thrones with its never-ending succession of boobs, rapes and slaughters, but somehow golden age WW is considered for pervert only.

I'm neither offended by it, nor mocking it ... hope I'm not coming across as such ... I find it interesting. Marston's went well beyond the norm with the bondage and spanking, I don't have the book handy, but there is a whole bit in the Hanley book that goes into the frequency of bondage and compares it to other books like BM, it's significantly more in WW. I agree that the message wasn't 100% about sex though, I think it was mostly a device to show her power and get across his ideas of submission to a loving authority "setting you free"

As for others, I'd say that in at least American culture violence in media is much less "embarrassing" than sexuality ... guess our "puritan" background comes out in surprising ways.

[David B.]

Don't worry Darius, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote my tirade!

[Darius]

Don't worry Darius, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote my tirade!

Phew! I was re-reading my posts thinking I said soe thing I didn't mean!