Divia(Forever Knight) vs Flash(Flash tv show)

[MichaelC]

who wins this fight?

[Sharpandpointies]

I have to give Divia points for killing Vachon (actually, I have to give her a standing ovation), despite her being part of Season Three.

So, a couple of questions.

1. Does Flash have to 'Turn on' his superspeed?

- if the answer to this is 'Yes', then he's dead.

2. If he doesn't, does he have a means in the arena to behead her?

- if the answer to this is 'No', then he's dead. Eventually. When he gets tired.

Despite some weird PIS moments, Forever Knight vampires are cursed hard to hurt. Really, they need to be staked or beheaded; Nick has been shot over and over again at point blank range and treats that kind of thing as a reason to change clothing when he gets home.

[big_adventure]

It's somewhat questionable as to whether Barry has to turn on his speed or not.

Arguments FOR it being some kind of a conscious on/off power:

1. He gets hit all the time by normal people. This could be PIS, or it could absolutely show that he needs to manually turn the speed on and off. This is the biggest of the "it ain't automatic" arguments.
2. Related to this, he is sometimes grabbed or hit straight out of superspeed, and he is just stuck in such cases. Again, could be PIS, could be an indication that stunning him/causing him pain breaks his concentration and prevents him from activating his speed.

Arguments AGAINST him needing to consciously activate the speed:

1. When he first got his powers, he had a couple of "the world is in slowtime" moments, where he obviously didn't consciously activate anything. Now, this could be PIS, or it could just be that he was activating it, just not knowing what he did.
2. His heart rate is crazy fast all of the time. This is not conscious.
3. His body heals a couple or orders of magnitude faster than normal (a broken wrist in hours, for example) - and it does this when he's unconscious, in a coma, or sleeping. Clearly that's not something he has to consciously trigger.
4. His metabolism is super crazy fast, to the extent that drinking a dozen shots of liquor in a fraction of a second does not make him slightly drunk or even uncomfortable. This was a specific plot point - he couldn't turn this off, so he couldn't get drunk when he wanted to do so.

So, unfortunately, they have yet to explicitly address this, and the actual feats on screen are kind of contradictory. Basically, YGIAGAM.

[Sharpandpointies]

Assuming it's automatic, does he have a means to decapitate her?

And not 'runs past her and cuts her head off with his hand' stuff, because unless he has been shown to do that (or slice through metal or something) in the show, that's not happening.

Otherwise, he's going to get tired at some point. She won't.

[big_adventure]

He will actually get tired pretty quickly - using his speed chews through calories, so he needs to eat. Not immediately, but eventually.

As far as dealing damage, well, he did a supersonic punch (basically a minuscule version of an IMP) to beat mini-Colossus. The guy in question could transform some or all of his body to metal, and it wasn't really conscious: when he was shot or hit by Barry, he automatically changed before impact... somehow. Cisco calculated that they could, more or less, overload the guy's powers if Barry hit him with a punch at mach 1.1. Barry does so, it works, and the dude is both wobbly and incapable of turning into metal after the hit. Iris then KTFO'd the guy.

Now then, there are a couple of caveats:

1. I don't know how Divia's durability compares to micro-Colossus'. The guy was no-selling bullets, but that's about the extent of it. Would such a strike be enough to knock her head clean off? Dunno.
2. Here's a bigger caveat: the impact broke Barry's hand/arm/whatever and left him writing in pain on the ground, incapable of doing anything effective. He would have been killed by the wobbly and powerless "I Can't Believe It's Not Colossus" if Iris hadn't taken him all the way down.
3. And here's the GIANT caveat: Barry needed a 5.3 mile running start in a straight line to get up to that speed. Given his feat with the coffee shop, no, this really doesn't make any sense at all, but it's explicitly what happened in the show.

[Sharpandpointies]

Thing is, stuff just doesn't HURT the vampires. Outside of low showings, they get smashed around, shot (bullets pass right through them), beat up, etc.

Outside of fire, decapitation, and wooden stakes, it all ends up doing somewhere between 'nothing' and 'zilch'.

He'd have to knock her head off, and the issue with that is when you hit someone in the head, it's more likely to crush the skull and send them flying rather than 'tear head off'. Body is connected by some pretty strong stuff, it's more easy to make the body move than tear off the head.

That's...not really going to stop her, even if he could get the speed up. Give her a moment or two, and she's back on her feet feeling a little honked off (one character got impaled on about a dozen very large steel spikes in the first show, including through the head; it stopped him briefly, but he basically pulled himself off the spikes, no harm done).

[Tanrage]

Depending on how durable she is Barry could just do a simple punch to the head at full speed and splatter her skull for a gory decapitation type attack. His best speed feat is probably pulling hundreds of passengers off a derailing train with no fatalities, more than fast enough for something like that.

[Sharpandpointies]

It's not really 'durability' (some blunt force durability, maybe). They just don't suffer injury, or heal with stupid speed from injuries that don't really DO anything. Obviously there's a limit, but Nick has stood there staring at a guy as the guy shoots holes in him, the bullets passing right through, then acted without any actual visible injury or loss of capacity. Vampires get smashed around by other vampires - thrown around, hit by superhumanly strong characters and the like - and it at best makes them slow down for a few seconds.

Jeannette runs through sunlight under a coat, smoke billowing out as she cries in agony. She gets inside, throws off the cloak, smoke still coming off her...and she's fine. The injury from the sun is gone.

Nick's injuries occasionally stick around longer, but it's mostly either PIS or it's because Nick is expressedly weaker than other vampires thanks to him not drinking human blood. It comes up from time to time - Forever Knight vampires DO get stronger as they get older, and Nick occasionally gets beat up by newbs.

Note that Nick is strong enough to hurl people dozens of feet through the air, and again, he's not the strongest Vampire around. But when vampires explicitly stronger than him - like one of the Enforcers, for example, who manhandles him like he's a child - bounce him around, once again there are NO real injuries.

Their soak/resistance to blunt damage/healing is ridiculous.

Again, obviously there's a limit, but how much oomph can Flash put out? We're talking decapitation-level head explosion is necessary here, and that's not easy to get on a super-tough, flexible object that WILL move to some extent with the hit.

[Sharpandpointies]

If the guy can do it (without disintegrating his hand against her tougher skull...he does have a feat for that, it seems), then he can. Just tossing those points out there for thought.

[The Watcher]

Speaking of blood, how often do Foever Knight vampires have to feed to keep up their strength and other powers? Any chance Barry could avoid her attacks long enough for her to weaken?

Also, just how vulnerable are they to fire? Barry not only carries his cellphone with him but there is comm gear in his suit as well. And he is a CSI science geek. He might be able to jury rig some sort of fire-starting device or even something mildly explosive with what he has on him.

[big_adventure]

If the guy can do it (without disintegrating his hand against her tougher skull...he does have a feat for that, it seems), then he can. Just tossing those points out there for thought.

The question really is: can Barry dish enough damage in one shot to kill the vamp. Because if he cannot, it seems like he's going to lose.

At the present time, I don't see him pulling this off. His one attack that might be strong enough (based on what you are saying) broke him and incapacitated him, leaving him open for what would have been a surely lethal response and, moreover, required the aforementioned 5.3 mile straight-line headstart.

One note about the "pulling people off the train" feat: it wasn't hundreds of people; we don't see more than a dozen or so. Good feat, but honestly, not THAT good. It was less-fast than the coffee shop feat. And required fewer laws of physics (obviously not including Barry himself - his stuff I'm OK with - but making an espresso and steaming milk is making an espresso and steaming milk - you being fast doesn't make those things any faster) being ignored. And the coffee feat might not be the worst feat in that episode alone. His "get up, **** shower shave brush teeth eat breakfast as fast as possible because I'm late for work" has so many problems it causes me physical agony to think about it. Evidently things like city water pressure, his toaster and, oh, I dunno, fucking gravitational constants (otherwise, how is superspeed dude even getting hit by shower droplets, how is his toothbrush getting wet, etc.) are subject to Barry deciding he wants to do stuff extra fast this morning.

[big_adventure]

Speaking of blood, how often do Foever Knight vampires have to feed to keep up their strength and other powers? Any chance Barry could avoid her attacks long enough for her to weaken?

Also, just how vulnerable are they to fire? Barry not only carries his cellphone with him but there is comm gear in his suit as well. And he is a CSI science geek. He might be able to jury rig some sort of fire-starting device or even something mildly explosive with what he has on him.

He has no feats for anything like that kind of stuff. But honestly, a 3.8v, 1500-3000ish mah battery (like you find in a cellphone) isn't causing all that much fire. And the one in his suit is bluedouche-sized, so the battery is smaller still. He also doesn't carry any tools one would need for such a thing in the suit.

[Guy1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNovrqPG3Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RRaPciqv2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2CJfoZ4UE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCKhsP56jao

[Dalak]

If we're spotting Barry his "I'm far faster than that energy blast" speed at the end of the last episode, I think he could probably come up with a way to win this. He'd be able to build up to a far better punch than the one mentioned above in no time flat, without getting into "hitting the same spot lots of times at superspeed" trick which he hasn't quite shown yet.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

If we're spotting Barry his "I'm far faster than that energy blast" speed at the end of the last episode, I think he could probably come up with a way to win this. He'd be able to build up to a far better punch than the one mentioned above in no time flat, without getting into "hitting the same spot lots of times at superspeed" trick which he hasn't quite shown yet.

Eh. He doesn't particularly have much wiggle room to build that punch up in the arena anywhoo. Assuming he can run in a circle and build speed, he's got a chance. But with what's been presented for the Vampire here ... he better make sure he completely removes the head in /one/ punch.

Though the issue of "I have to run in a circle and build up the speed while the Vampire I'm fighting just kinda ... doesn't stand there like an idiot", well ...