BATMAN ETERNAL Megathread (35-48)

[Frontier]

Seeing Batman punch Bard was very satisfying, as was seeing the Bat-Family together and working as a team (albeit in a somewhat different way than in Batman and Robin) .

Hush made a point about Batman needing a new Batmobile. He had one in Batman #34, so presumably Bruce manages to either build one from scratch/spare parts or possibly Lucius donates a new one to make amends for his helping Bard almost kill Batman.

Seems like Harper's developing a crush on Tim...makes me wonder if Tim will even get one moment with Stephanie in Eternal at this rate?

Looks like Riddler's figured everything out and is surprised Batman hasn't. I guess with all that's been going on, getting hit with something one after another, Bruce isn't in the best state to piece everything together even when the clues are staring him right in the face.

I think when it comes to where Batman and Robin takes place in regards to Eternal, that will probably be something Tomasi addresses at the end of Robin Rises or in the new arc with Damian. At best, what I can see is the method through which Damian's revived keeps him completely out of commission for the entirety of Eternal and none of the characters bring him up because it would spoil that Damian was being revived at the end of Robin Rises.

Batgirl being in her new costume gives me the impression that she's dividing her time between Burnside and Gotham, or this point in Eternal might take place a bit further in Batgirl's timeline where she's back in Gotham to help out.

My headcanon for Detective is that it's before Eternal, even without Gordon showing up, if only because Bullock seems to have a much better relationship with Batman both in Eternal and in #34, which might be a result of character development in future Detective arcs. Or it could just be a case of different writers with different interpretations .

[AlexanderLuthor]

To add to my previous post...here is an explanation of events:

"There must be a month-long gap in-between Batman Eternal #20 and Batman Eternal #21. Why? In Batman Eternal #21 several things are specifically mentioned regarding the extended passage of off-panel time from the previous issue. First, Julia Pennyworth will say that it has been “weeks” since she moved into Wayne Manor. Likewise, Carmine Falcone will say that he should have been extradited to Hong Kong “weeks ago.” And last and most importantly, Bullock will say that Gordon and Forbes both went to jail within a span of “some months.” The addition of the month-long gap makes Julia, Carmine, and Bullock’s statements all valid. Several items fill up a good part of the gap below: a Batman Eternal #21 note, Batgirl Vol. 4 #33, Grayson #1-2, the “Hunt for Robin/Robin Rises” saga, a Teen Titans Annual note, the Superman: Doomed saga, Red Lanterns Annual #1, and Green Arrow Vol. 6 #35."

[brucekent12]

A month sounds plausible as a gap for this story. And I think Snyder said there wa a couple of weeks or maybe it was a month? between Eternal and Endgame. Man, Bruce must be exhausted!

[K. Jones]

To add to my previous post...here is an explanation of events:

"There must be a month-long gap in-between Batman Eternal #20 and Batman Eternal #21. Why? In Batman Eternal #21 several things are specifically mentioned regarding the extended passage of off-panel time from the previous issue. First, Julia Pennyworth will say that it has been “weeks” since she moved into Wayne Manor. Likewise, Carmine Falcone will say that he should have been extradited to Hong Kong “weeks ago.” And last and most importantly, Bullock will say that Gordon and Forbes both went to jail within a span of “some months.” The addition of the month-long gap makes Julia, Carmine, and Bullock’s statements all valid. Several items fill up a good part of the gap below: a Batman Eternal #21 note, Batgirl Vol. 4 #33, Grayson #1-2, the “Hunt for Robin/Robin Rises” saga, a Teen Titans Annual note, the Superman: Doomed saga, Red Lanterns Annual #1, and Green Arrow Vol. 6 #35."

I have it between 20 and 21 as well. I can't remember if they specifically stated as much in interviews, as far as Acts go, but we do know that Fabok issues are usually punctuation - arc starters or finishers. We can probably fit "ICARUS" between Act 1 and Act 2, and "ANARKY" between Act 2 and Act 3. Anarky features winter, Christmas time, and I suppose we can presume that this is one of his last nice moments "at home" before Wayne Manor is seized, which happens off camera in both Eternal and Arkham Manor.

So ... tentatively ...

Futures End related stories wrap - Batwing, and the still ongoing Red Hood & Batwoman stuff
ETERNAL ACT 1 (1-20) (FALCONE VS PENGUIN)
ICARUS ... possibly TERMINAL, and maaayyyybe Hunt for Robin/RISES
ETERNAL ACT 2 (20-33) (HUSH)
ANARKY ... GRAYSON (so far) ... BATGIRL OF BURNSIDE ... CATWOMAN REVAMP ... possibly ARKHAM MANOR (with "The Meek" as a prologue)
ETERNAL ACT 3 (34-52) (???)

I'm not touching placing HUNT FOR ROBIN/RISES until it finishes but am still listing it prior for now. To say nothing of "SUPER ROBIN", since that runs three issues before the hiatus. Gotham Academy is an interesting one because my instinct is to run it parallel with Batgirl's revamp and Arkham Manor. Gotham By Midnight is a complete mystery until we know what happens to Corrigan ... or Gordon ... in Eternal.

As a compulsive lister it pains me to split Eternal into segments because it's pretty narratively cohesive and I like to keep "the same story arc" more or less complete in the list. But exceptions must be made for a Weekly series.

[Claude]

I have it between 20 and 21 as well. I can't remember if they specifically stated as much in interviews, as far as Acts go, but we do know that Fabok issues are usually punctuation - arc starters or finishers. We can probably fit "ICARUS" between Act 1 and Act 2, and "ANARKY" between Act 2 and Act 3. Anarky features winter, Christmas time, and I suppose we can presume that this is one of his last nice moments "at home" before Wayne Manor is seized, which happens off camera in both Eternal and Arkham Manor.

So ... tentatively ...

Futures End related stories wrap - Batwing, and the still ongoing Red Hood & Batwoman stuff
ETERNAL ACT 1 (1-20) (FALCONE VS PENGUIN)
ICARUS ... possibly TERMINAL, and maaayyyybe Hunt for Robin/RISES
ETERNAL ACT 2 (20-33) (HUSH)
ANARKY ... GRAYSON (so far) ... BATGIRL OF BURNSIDE ... CATWOMAN REVAMP ... possibly ARKHAM MANOR (with "The Meek" as a prologue)
ETERNAL ACT 3 (34-52) (???)

I'm not touching placing HUNT FOR ROBIN/RISES until it finishes but am still listing it prior for now. To say nothing of "SUPER ROBIN", since that runs three issues before the hiatus. Gotham Academy is an interesting one because my instinct is to run it parallel with Batgirl's revamp and Arkham Manor. Gotham By Midnight is a complete mystery until we know what happens to Corrigan ... or Gordon ... in Eternal.

As a compulsive lister it pains me to split Eternal into segments because it's pretty narratively cohesive and I like to keep "the same story arc" more or less complete in the list. But exceptions must be made for a Weekly series.

How nice, though, that the first Trade runs up to #20. Splitting up the arc you might be, but at least you can run things neatly on your shelf!

[MajorHoy]

Just read #5 and #36. Is the actual destruction of parts of Gotham City by Hush and now Bard (with how many people watching and by not physically stopping him almost condoning it) a tad . . . excessive? Is the reveal that Hush wasn't the big bad behind it all, but aparently spoilers:

The Riddler

end of spoilers a tad . . . familiar?

I'm growing tired of this "let's destroy Bruce's / Batman's life . . . AGAIN!" theme . . . are they trying to copy or even out-do the recent Batman movies or something?

[M L A]

^ He's not the big bad. He just apparently knows who the big bad is.

[K. Jones]

Wrench thrown into OCD timeline listing when I realized "oh hell, Ragman has been appearing in Batwoman since September".

But he's just Luke's roommate in Batman Eternal, not yet Ragman.

The Unknowns arc (post-Futures End, and probably the Nocturna stuff prior) almost must take place post-Eternal, apparently.

[brucekent12]

I think this book is flipping fantastic. Keep it up guys!

[sicsexsix]

Is anyone else wondering if Catwoman mentioning the Penitente Cartel was a hint that we may be seeing Dr. Hurt soon?

[K. Jones]

Is anyone else wondering if Catwoman mentioning the Penitente Cartel was a hint that we may be seeing Dr. Hurt soon?

It was my first thought, but that's just because I've been assuming Doctor Hurt for about a month anyway. Someone sent Flamingo after Spoiler. Professor Pyg was operating big at the beginning (first issue, no less). Scorpiana tried to kill the witnesses to the Falsario operation. There appear to be FIVE key parts of the conspiracy. (FALCONE, HUSH, Whoever Wrecked Arkham, Whoever Set Loose the Nanotech, Whoever Hired Falsario ... of which I suspect Milo, Wrath and Lincoln March, and a Lincoln/Doctor Hurt connection will make their "Willowwood" connection explicit in the text - to say nothing of BOTH being "Thomas Waynes")

This issue didn't have the best art. But there was a lot I liked. Selina has been a bit more "Selina" in Eternal than her own title, which is dealing with its own narrative needs and has crime-comic noir art and is trying to set up the high-stakes, so it's nice to see really Catwomany things happening in Eternal, whether it be Spy-Cats about Gotham (with almost Tesla-esque tech), or hanging on the penthouse wearing sports underwear of a similar make to the stuff she wore back in Batman, Incorporated # 1.

I like Selina one-upping a Ghost Dragon in a big way. (WHO is the Hong Kong connection?) I thought the tension with Bruce was nice.

The post-Arkham War state of the Rogues was really odd. Batman's Usual Suspects are in such a weird place right now. The alliance between Bane and Ivy is actually one I find pretty believable even if it's ironically "Straight Outta Schumacher's Movie", just because she's a gray-area villain and more of an eco-terrorist, lighter on the murder, and he's, well, Bane. But I thought ironically that Clayface being kind of schlubby and go-along was a neat character choice for him. It's hard to believe Freeze teaming with anyone, though. Guy is a cold fish, and is such a loner. I really don't think Crane would've gone within 100 feet of Bane, though. Not good for his health. But I will be interested in seeing his take on the Arkham disaster.

Killer Croc is proving to be an excellent "Wild Card". His tenuous relationship with Batman is interesting because he's a killer, but his reasons we've learned are usually more well-thought and vigilantish than the usual rogue murders (IE; Bane just kills as posturing, Crane does it to test horrific experiments, Freeze does it because he's psychotic). But the irony there is that Batman might just be wrong ... Croc "lost everything" sure, but he'd been building a whole underground homeless network, he's the new Sewer King, and since we know his killings are more statements or revenge against injustice, and he's smarter than his bestial nature belies, we could be seeing Croc turn back into the 80s "Crime Lord Croc" right under Batman's nose.

I'm saying, of the rogues, ironically, he seems to be the one who has "found himself" or got his #*#*# together lately. An alliance between him underground and Selina above could be fascinating (although who knows if the Catwoman in this issue is actually Selina or Eiko.)

I'm all for Penguin being the most visible "legit" businessman in Gotham, but I'm rooting for Croc to rule.

[Claude]

For those of you keeping track at home, Mr Freeze is free here having escaped Arkham - whereas he's one of the residents in Arkham Manor, so we are still before that in the timeline.


But good issue, I thought. Felt like a pretty dense one that covered a lot of areas, and Bullock is always a rewarding character when writers put a bit of effort in - nice to see Croc back, and I'm always keen to keep on waiting for that one Good Poison Ivy Story that will sell me on the character. If they can do to her here what they've done with Croc, that oughta do it!


I'd be wary of reading too much into the mention of "El Penitente" though - I still can't quite believe we'll see Hurt as Top Operator here, if only because he's so tied into so many of the more involved (dare one say convoluted?) bits of Morrison's run that he doesn't really lift out into other stories without taking a lot of baggage with him. Seeley just seems to get a little kick out of that kind of reference - he's the only writer since Arkham War happened to even mention it, for one thing!

[Fuzzy Cactus]

Selina's dialogue seems so jarring compared to her in Catwoman. I mean, it's consistent with how she's been written in Eternal, but it's just funny since Catwoman is out this same week. It's like that week where Dick was being chased by college girls in Grayson, while he was going Jack Bauer in Detective Comics.

[vitamin]

I love different flavours of our favourites.

[sicsexsix]

It was my first thought, but that's just because I've been assuming Doctor Hurt for about a month anyway. Someone sent Flamingo after Spoiler. Professor Pyg was operating big at the beginning (first issue, no less). Scorpiana tried to kill the witnesses to the Falsario operation. There appear to be FIVE key parts of the conspiracy. (FALCONE, HUSH, Whoever Wrecked Arkham, Whoever Set Loose the Nanotech, Whoever Hired Falsario ... of which I suspect Milo, Wrath and Lincoln March, and a Lincoln/Doctor Hurt connection will make their "Willowwood" connection explicit in the text - to say nothing of BOTH being "Thomas Waynes")

This issue didn't have the best art. But there was a lot I liked. Selina has been a bit more "Selina" in Eternal than her own title, which is dealing with its own narrative needs and has crime-comic noir art and is trying to set up the high-stakes, so it's nice to see really Catwomany things happening in Eternal, whether it be Spy-Cats about Gotham (with almost Tesla-esque tech), or hanging on the penthouse wearing sports underwear of a similar make to the stuff she wore back in Batman, Incorporated # 1.

I like Selina one-upping a Ghost Dragon in a big way. (WHO is the Hong Kong connection?) I thought the tension with Bruce was nice.

The post-Arkham War state of the Rogues was really odd. Batman's Usual Suspects are in such a weird place right now. The alliance between Bane and Ivy is actually one I find pretty believable even if it's ironically "Straight Outta Schumacher's Movie", just because she's a gray-area villain and more of an eco-terrorist, lighter on the murder, and he's, well, Bane. But I thought ironically that Clayface being kind of schlubby and go-along was a neat character choice for him. It's hard to believe Freeze teaming with anyone, though. Guy is a cold fish, and is such a loner. I really don't think Crane would've gone within 100 feet of Bane, though. Not good for his health. But I will be interested in seeing his take on the Arkham disaster.

Killer Croc is proving to be an excellent "Wild Card". His tenuous relationship with Batman is interesting because he's a killer, but his reasons we've learned are usually more well-thought and vigilantish than the usual rogue murders (IE; Bane just kills as posturing, Crane does it to test horrific experiments, Freeze does it because he's psychotic). But the irony there is that Batman might just be wrong ... Croc "lost everything" sure, but he'd been building a whole underground homeless network, he's the new Sewer King, and since we know his killings are more statements or revenge against injustice, and he's smarter than his bestial nature belies, we could be seeing Croc turn back into the 80s "Crime Lord Croc" right under Batman's nose.

I'm saying, of the rogues, ironically, he seems to be the one who has "found himself" or got his #*#*# together lately. An alliance between him underground and Selina above could be fascinating (although who knows if the Catwoman in this issue is actually Selina or Eiko.)

I'm all for Penguin being the most visible "legit" businessman in Gotham, but I'm rooting for Croc to rule.

Pretty much agreed with everything you said. Hurt & March have been on my suspects list since the first issue, and now that we know Hush was only a player, I'm even more convinced it's one or both of them. And it's funny that Willow Wood was brought up in this month's issue of Batman too. Little cross references like that are hard for me to ignore.

The series has picked up a serious amount of steam since it kicked off and has yet to feel too drawn out or stagnant.

Having all the participants in the Arkham War together under one roof with a tenuous alliance could be it's own mini-series in the hands of a capable writer. They're certainly in a unique position, kind of off in the periphery, but I can see them taking advantage of the circumstances & trying to move themselves to the center stage (and the irony of seeing Bane & Ivy together on the page was not lost on me ). Catwoman as the top mob boss is refreshing change of pace for her, one of the most interesting twists to the character they've done in quite some time, but yes, Croc is most definitely proving to be a stand out. After all the dimwitted portrayals of him that we've seen (I presume you've seen the thread on it in here?), this series may very well be one of the best things to happen to him. He's such a cool character, but he's suffered some pretty awful misuse over the years, so it's nice to see someone (I'm gonna guess Seeley) attempting to bring him to potential.

This might not be the best Batman saga of all time, but it has been solid & every week, without fail, it leaves me waiting to see what's gonna happen next