Plot Induced Stupidities that aren't considered one

[Masonicon]

Which instances of Plot Induced Stupidities that aren't considered one even despite being obviously one?

I start with these: Silver Age Superman solos someone like The One Above All and Bulletproof vests with Small Arms Protect inserts penetrated by anything including even knives

[Anarchist]

Red Hulk punching out The Watcher and killing the Silver Surfer.
Even after his Jeph Loeb-wanking had been undone by Parker, these instances still get brought up numerous times.

[big_adventure]

Which instances of Plot Induced Stupidities that aren't considered one even despite being obviously one?

I start with these: Silver Age Superman solos someone like The One Above All and Bulletproof vests with Small Arms Protect inserts penetrated by anything including even knives

Those aren't PIS, those are SMvFL. Plot-Induced Stupidity is Flash forgetting his speed and letting Captain Boomerang or Deathstroke tag him. Flash is acting stupid to further the plot (hence the not-subtle name). SMvFL is Black Panther putting Silver Surfer into an effective armbar, Flash soloing Pre-Crisis Darkseid, Sebastien Shaw bending adamantium, Rulk manipulating Mjolnir 'cause "no gravity", Superman being threatened by Toyman in any situation or, obviously, Spider-Man beating Firelord. Those are just cases of the writer ignoring, well, everything there is about the character/material/equipment/whatever in question to achieve the desired result.

[big_adventure]

Red Hulk punching out The Watcher and killing the Silver Surfer.
Even after his Jeph Loeb-wanking had been undone by Parker, these instances still get brought up numerous times.

And again, SMvFL, not PIS.

The most legendary PIS-examples are often Flash-related. After the dude has done what he's done, the fact that Captains Boomerang and Cold, or Mirror Master, are remotely threats is strictly because Flash forgets his powers to enable an arc. Hell, back in Wally's prime, or Pre-Crisis Barry's, the fact that issues went past the second panel is generally completely PIS, unless they were wasting a few panels on out-of-costume stuff.

[RubberLotus]

The fact that Joker randomly tracked down a hunk of Kryptonite before Lex freaking Luthor did in the first DCAU Superman/Batman crossover never sat well with me...

It's SMvFL and PIS combined - Joker getting some undue competence while Luthor is inadvertently made dumber and/or poorer.

[big_adventure]

Eh, even that. That's questionable story-telling maybe, but PIS? I mean, unless Lex knew where to find some and just didn't or couldn't because of reasons that don't square with his history, it's not PIS. Joker finding some may or may not be SMvFL (depending on the world - there are writers who make Kryptonite show up in soda machines, and writers that make it as rare as Astatine), but it's far, far from a severe example of same.

PIS would be Spider-Man standing 10 feet from a normal dude pointing a gun at Mary Jane, yet doing what the schmuck says because he conveniently-for-the-plot forgets he can totally blitz the guy to paste before he can possibly pull the trigger. Lex just not finding something when he doesn't know where it is beforehand isn't PIS - it just means he couldn't find it in this case before another criminal got his hands on some. Now, it is obviously plot-driven, but just because things are dictated by the plot doesn't make them PIS.

[big_adventure]

Of special note are things that are critical to the plot that we, as readers, may find stupid: those aren't PIS. For example, when Doc Ock recently tried to fry the world, and he prepped for the Avengers. Prepping for the Avengers required finding, in a normal museum, a tooth of Jormungandr, the norse world-serpent. He affixed this to Rhino's horn, which allowed said horn to gore Thor, KO'ing the big gun in an important fight.

Part of this is PIS, but part of it is just simply stupid for the reader:

Thor letting Rhino even get a shot in before simply blitz-stomping the entire Sinister Six is PIS for Thor (something big guns are frequently victims of in team settings).

Thor not recognizing the tooth of Jormundgandr is probably PIS for Thor as well.

The tooth puncturing Thor, when only driven by Rhino's strength? SMvFL. I mean, I'm fine with the tooth being strong enough to pierce the guy, but that's when driven by the jaws of the world serpent. And if it IS capable of doing that, surely tests on it would have shown that it's something along the lines of "adamantium strong" long before this, and that would all be public record.

There being a tooth of freaking Jormundgandr simply collecting dust on a museum shelf without anyone knowing what it is and what it can do is just plain stupid. I mean, there are hundreds of potent mages on Marvel Earth - how could one of them not have found this? How could Doc Ock have located it and been sure of what it was, when none of these mages ever did? How did Loki, who has plotted to kill Thor dozens of times in writing, and hundreds/thousands of times besides that, and who knows roughly all there is to know about the World Serpent, NOT find this decades/centuries/millennia prior to use against said big brother? How did Doom not find it? That isn't PIS - it's just plain old normal stupid by the writer of the arc.

[Cyke]

Power Rangers/Super Sentai has it in spades: all their victories come from using their finishing moves (cannons, named attacks, big weapons, etc). Why they don't just open the battle with those attacks is never really explained beyond Zordon's vague rule "Don't escalate a fight;" -- and of course, if they did that, then all that choreography and FX and fireworks would be useless. But then the PIS trope gets subverted, too: if they DO use their finishers at the start of the fight, it WILL inevitably fail for some reason and reveal that they're up against a stronger-than-usual villain.

Akibaranger was delightfully genre-saavy enough to play around with PIS to comedic effect. Yes, PIS still happened, but the heroes would acknowledge it and adhere to it because that's how it's done in the show. The villains would laugh if the heroes started the battle with their finisher, because they *knew* it would raise certain flags. Or, particularly in Akiba Red's case, if he fell into PIS, he would suffer doubly-worse because he should have seen it coming.

[big_adventure]

Honestly, a lot of Dragonball (basic, Z, movies, GT, anything) is like that: the Saiyans always start out unstransformed, and eventually transform up to something stronger for the win. Sometimes there is something "different" about what they have to transform to - sure - but they still always start out normal and go from there. Even basic or pre-SSJ, they would start off with weak moves and weak attacks, before stepping it up, eventually reaching the level it takes to win. They would even acknowledge it - them not wanting to win too quickly, or them letting others handle the fight for themselves, even when it was beyond them, etc.

[Jonathan]

Real World military in most alien invasion/zombie apocalypse movies are good examples of actual ones. Ones were it seemed like it but wasn't? Hm, I''d have to give that more thought.

[ThiefHookUps]

What does SMvFL stand for?

[Sharpandpointies]

What does SMvFL stand for?

It's actually in the Rules sticky, but it means Spiderman Versus Firelord, referring to a famous story where Spiderman punches out Firelord, a herald of Galactus who has thrown down with Thor and other heavyweights.

It refers to a feat that is far beyond the established capacity of a character -- so far, in fact, that it gets tossed out for the purpose of use in debates about the character in Rumbles.

The key thing on Rumbles isn't just 'high end feats' - it's 'high end feats consistent with the character's presentation'. Peter Parker punching out a guy capable of withstanding hits from Thor is rather ridiculous.

[Captain Smith]

Spiderman vs. Firelord. No way Spidey could beat a herald. So it was an example of a stupid writer. Same with Black Panther putting a armlock on the SS. The powerful differential is so great it couldn't happen.

PS - you beat to the draw, Sharps!

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

It's actually in the Rules sticky, but it means Spiderman Versus Firelord, referring to a famous story where Spiderman punches out Firelord, a herald of Galactus who has thrown down with Thor and other heavyweights.

Recently had someone IRL try to explain how that was a legitimate thing for Spiderman.

His face. I laughed.

Right. In. It.

[Anarchist]

And again, SMvFL, not PIS.

The most legendary PIS-examples are often Flash-related. After the dude has done what he's done, the fact that Captains Boomerang and Cold, or Mirror Master, are remotely threats is strictly because Flash forgets his powers to enable an arc. Hell, back in Wally's prime, or Pre-Crisis Barry's, the fact that issues went past the second panel is generally completely PIS, unless they were wasting a few panels on out-of-costume stuff.

Well fore me it's also PIS.
I mean the literally All-Seeing Watcher doesn't see some Red A-Hole coming, whose fight he was starting to narrate?
And Norrin, the guy who can go intangible, let's himself get choked (not to talk about that he doesn't even need air).