Thread Re-Drift: Cyclops, Hope, Phoenix, the Avengers & AvX

[dragonmp93]

Phoenix arrived before Thunderer even left. They essentially needed the Phoenix buster to stop Phoenix for taking Hope before she was ready. Creating the P5 essentially bought them time to train Hope properly.

So, creating the Phoenix wasnt an accident and was their plan all along, huh ?.

Except that the PF did destroy planets en route to Earth.

Maybe it's inconsistent with previous events but that's the story given to us and the most recent depiction of the PF.

No one is yet to explain how an entity that has destroyed billions is suddenly not a danger and that everyone should just fold their arms and watch it come to Earth.

Well, when Rachel was the host she never went Dark Phoenix, and Jean only became the Dark Phoenix when the Hellfire Club messed up with her mind, so..............

[XPac]

So, creating the Phoenix wasnt an accident and was their plan all along, huh ?.



Well, when Rachel was the host she never went Dark Phoenix, and Jean only became the Dark Phoenix when the Hellfire Club messed up with her mind, so..............

The Phoenix going into the X-Men was likely accidental. They obviously wanted to stop it from going into Hope, but I don't think they knew it would jump into the X-Men.

[Mikekerr3]

The Phoenix going into the X-Men was likely accidental. They obviously wanted to stop it from going into Hope, but I don't think they knew it would jump into the X-Men.

They lucked out by it going to the X-men they could just have made it mad or crazy.

[Username taken]

The Avengters attacked Utopia with no knowledge that planets were being attacked, they lied to the President to justify it.

Unless they used time travel the Avengers were intentionally lying since their description of the PF was baseless idiocy at best. And the books proved that the BullS*** about the PF being more fdangersous with a host was a idiotic lie, since it destroyed many planaets without a host and none with one. They said the PF used a Host to destroy planets with when it was destroying planets without one

I think we're kind of going in circles here.

Iron man had knowledge of the Phoenix destroying planets but how he got this knowledge isn't shown in the book.

And none of this again changes the fact that Jean Grey with the Phoenix did up destroying a planet. Scott Summers with the PF might have destroyed the Earth. But again, this is thread drift as this is about the Scarlet Witch.

This will probably be my last topic on the dangers of the PF because if we are going by the comics, the entity has been depicted as dangerous in the past. We don't get to pick and choose the cannon.

[Mikekerr3]

I think we're kind of going in circles here.

Iron man had knowledge of the Phoenix destroying planets but how he got this knowledge isn't shown in the book.

there is nothing to indicate that Stark and Cap knew at all. It is not like Cap will not by any silly BS he4 is told and Stark is not a amoral liar who has no trouble at all lying and decieving for political and financial purposes

And none of this again changes the fact that Jean Grey with the Phoenix did up destroying a planet. Scott Summers with the PF might have destroyed the Earth. But again, this is thread drift as this is about the Scarlet Witch.

As of laast retcon she i did not.

This will probably be my last topic on the dangers of the PF because if we are going by the comics, the entity has been depicted as dangerous in the past. We don't get to pick and choose the cannon.

Dangerous yess, but the idea that it was parasitic or that it was more dangerous with a host is simply a lie by Stark and cap, not supported by a single book or even AvX. AvX shows it to be a pretty ignorant lie itself

[dragonmp93]

Be it 1 year or a 1,000,000 years ago, it's Marvel cannon.

We don't get to pick and choose what forms cannon, Marvel does.

Jean Grey, Scott Summers and Namor can testify to the dangerous effects of the PF.

Iron Man was 100% correct in highlighting the dangers of the PF.

Yeah, um, giant flaming bird vs. my fists.

Please...tell me who would win, or point me to the Greek text documenting how. Apparently I'm sadly ignorant.

And kicking a teenager when she's down? Stay classy, Scott.

LOL

"Is this how Professor X trained you?"

"Absolutely."

Liar. Dude was in a wheelchair.

Even Magneto, a former mutant terrorist who shut down the Earth's satellites that one time, felt this was extreme and obsessive of Scott. Ouch.

Well, at least was better that whatever the Avengers did to Hope in Avengers: X-sanction.
And you know that the Professor didnt born with the wheelchair, right ?.

In all fairness the quicksand thing was self-defense. Wanda just finished what Jean started.

Well, given that tecnically the Scarlet Witch was the one who start it almost 10 years ago............................................... ..................

I think we're kind of going in circles here.

Iron man had knowledge of the Phoenix destroying planets but how he got this knowledge isn't shown in the book.

And none of this again changes the fact that Jean Grey with the Phoenix did up destroying a planet. Scott Summers with the PF might have destroyed the Earth. But again, this is thread drift as this is about the Scarlet Witch.

This will probably be my last topic on the dangers of the PF because if we are going by the comics, the entity has been depicted as dangerous in the past. We don't get to pick and choose the cannon.

Well, except the time before Jean ended up in the Hellfire Club, and the time that used Rachel as a host, also Quintin Quire, and Hope, and the Phoenix 5 before the Avengers tried to kidnap Hope for a second time.

[Username taken]

Well, except the time before Jean ended up in the Hellfire Club, and the time that used Rachel as a host, also Quintin Quire, and Hope, and the Phoenix 5 before the Avengers tried to kidnap Hope for a second time.

You mean the same Hope who asked for Logan to kill her once she got the power on the moon because she was losing it? Or Emma Frost that killed a man for a crime he committed in the past or Scott Summers asking for the combined X-men and Avengers to kill him when he had a brief moment of clarity in AVX 12.

Also, Hope wanted to leave the X-men simply because they couldn't give her the training she needed. At the end of the day, the Avengers (Scarlet Witch and Iron Fist and Spider-man) helped her much more than the X-men ever could. Heck, Scott didn't even want to give Hope the power once he had tasted it (another example of how dangerous the PF is).

Any entity that can be manipulated/provoked/pushed into destrying planets/solar systems is a threat. It's no different than a Scarlet Witch with the Life force or Hal Jordan with Parallax, they are all threats.

[dragonmp93]

You mean the same Hope who asked for Logan to kill her once she got the power on the moon because she was losing it? Or Emma Frost that killed a man for a crime he committed in the past or Scott Summers asking for the combined X-men and Avengers to kill him when he had a brief moment of clarity in AVX 12.

Also, Hope wanted to leave the X-men simply because they couldn't give her the training she needed. At the end of the day, the Avengers (Scarlet Witch and Iron Fist and Spider-man) helped her much more than the X-men ever could. Heck, Scott didn't even want to give Hope the power once he had tasted it (another example of how dangerous the PF is).

Any entity that can be manipulated/provoked/pushed into destrying planets/solar systems is a threat. It's no different than a Scarlet Witch with the Life force or Hal Jordan with Parallax, they are all threats.

Hope's pact with Wolverine was only if she right after becoming the host of the Phoenix Force, she went Dark Phoenix.
And its funny that the point of this thread is that the Scarlet Witch shouldnt be treated as dangerous threat anymore.
Besides, its curious that its okay ignoring previous characterization of the Phoenix in favor of what happened in AvX, but its totally wrong when you do it with the Scarlet Witch in favor of House of M, #$%&/((/&%$ doublé standards.

As far as I can tell, no mutants (or former mutants) have pressed criminal or even civil charges against Wanda for what she did. If that changes then fine but as of now no one is holding her accountable, legally speaking at least, for her actions. Which frankly is the norm for cases which involve possession.

Well, given that in the Marvel Universe, the mutants are not even people anyways, so i dont think they can sue anyone.

Really, the only people that wanted to murder Wanda was Emma and Logan. Everyone else, including the rest of the X-Men, seemed against it. So I don't think it was really that bad.

One of the few times that Cyclops was WRONG and Wolverine was RIGHT.