So Covergence is closure and heroism according to Dan Dido?

[Blacksun]

Writers' creativity is influenced by the nature of the environment they are being asked to write in. Reboots are as much, if not more, for the writers than the readers.

Not to mention that the reboot events draw attention, which draws readers, which allows for more different kinds of books and stories to be told.

so writers can't write with continuity, tell that to Morrison

[BohemiaDrinker]

The alive peasant wasn't selling very well.

Yeah, but the content itself probably had very little to do with it, except for the last 2 years of it.

Why doesn't DC just be HONEST WITH IT READERS

Because it's not as fun!

[GlennSimpson]

Yeah, but the content itself probably had very little to do with it, except for the last 2 years of it.

But content is the only thing they can control.

[BohemiaDrinker]

so writers can't write with continuity, tell that to Morrison

Well, to be fair, comparing 98% of working professionals today to Morrison is more than unfair.

That said, I believe that cleaning continuity up has hardly to be what the New 52 actually ended uo being.

[Blacksun]

Me too. When it was said to be closure for the Pre-52 universe I think of a scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail. Where they are bringing out dead bodies to throw away and this one peasant is trying to throw away an alive peasant and the whole time he is yelling he's alive and okay. So the guy who is collecting bodies just gets fed up with the arguing and just hits the guy in the head and takes his body.

If you don't get what I mean, I'm saying the alive peasant is Pre-52, the New 52 is the guy trying to throw him out, and the guy who hits him is DC.

I hope something like this happen:


the dog is pre new 52, and the guy is DC

[Sirzechs]

so writers can't write with continuity, tell that to Morrison

As if Morrison gives a crap about anything but the story he's telling, how long did he wait before he brought by Bruce Wayne and took the position from Dick? few months

[BohemiaDrinker]

But content is the only thing they can control.

Nope. They can control distribution, they can control their public image and they can control, specially, marketing; being that the initial marketing push is undoubtless the number one factor in the success of the new 52; the content change being necessary pretty much only to justify said push. The content itself could have had been retooled in a number a diferent ways and the result would pretty much be the same; there was very little need to fix things that weren't broken except for personal views and preferences of some of the people in charge; in many cases going against their own creative talent for no good reason.

[BohemiaDrinker]

As if Morrison gives a crap about anything but the story he's telling, how long did he wait before he brought by Bruce Wayne and took the position from Dick? few months

A year. And he did not take the position from Dick; Dick as still Batman at the moment of the reboot.

[ekrolo2]

Well, to be fair, comparing 98% of working professionals today to Morrison is more than unfair.

That said, I believe that cleaning continuity up has hardly to be what the New 52 actually ended uo being.

What exactly wasn't cleaned up? Sure Batman and GL being condensed to five years was and still is dumb to high hell, but everyone else got a pretty clean slate out of it and for the better in the case of Supes, Supergirl, Wondie, Aquaman, Flash.

[Cipher]

Being dead is better than being out of continuity.

Eh. Arguable. It's really bizarre to think that the canonical ending to characters you care for over the years are to either die in an alternate timeline or be rebooted into a new universe continuously with no memories of the old. That's one thing about DC's approach to reboots that's never struck me well (though I'm okay with reboots otherwise). I'd much rather they just use the concept of a multiverse to jump the line to a new Earth every once in a while. Or just allow closure for a line and then fire everything back up with no cataclysmic event, etc.

Because, I don't know ... it's kind of a bummer to think that Golden Age Superman spent decades in a pocket universe and then died in a crisis? Like, is it too much to ask that maybe the old timelines just go on, unseen, and there's still the potential for some happy ending?

Why doesn't DC just be HONEST WITH IT READERS and admit their faults that the new 52 was flawed despite its success in the readers. It also generated more complaints than earnings and this is a way to try to Calm down the Pre New 52 fanbase.

I mean whatever happen to HONEST WAS THE BEST POLICY in today's world ?

I ... really don't think that's the case? Sounds like they just wanted to do a fun fanservicey event to fill the gap of moving offices. It's not even as though the pre-New 52 universe is the only represented here. These cross-timeline mash-ups are just classic comic book stuff.

The only complaints I have about the concept is that 1) It has to use the needless grimness of having cities bottled from collapsed timelines due to the way DC uses crises to reboot and 2) This should just be what the multiverse is used for all the time.

[Sirzechs]

A year. And he did not take the position from Dick; Dick as still Batman at the moment of the reboot.

But the Batman Inc story didn't continue with Dick as Batman even thou he was featured as such before the reboot. ( Yes yes New 52 rebooted things but it didn't touch Morrison runs, hell he had enough pull for references to Batman's outsiders to remain in continuity.)

[BohemiaDrinker]

What exactly wasn't cleaned up? Sure Batman and GL being condensed to five years was and still is dumb to high hell, but everyone else got a pretty clean slate out of it and for the better in the case of Supes, Supergirl, Wondie, Aquaman, Flash.

You mis-understand what I meant:

It was perfectly possible - and some would argue, more desirable - to take away most of the clutter and keep or rework a number of aspects, concepts and characters that were uncereminously thrown away. The house needed cleaning, yes, but they took the oportunity to just burn down a couple of rooms they didn't care for.

[ekrolo2]

You mis-understand what I meant:

It was perfectly possible - and some would argue, more desirable - to take away most of the clutter and keep or rework a number of aspects, concepts and characters that were uncereminously thrown away. The house needed cleaning, yes, but they took the oportunity to just burn down a couple of rooms they didn't care for.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think these rooms were that should've stuck around?

[BohemiaDrinker]

But the Batman Inc story didn't continue with Dick as Batman even thou he was featured as such before the reboot. ( Yes yes New 52 rebooted things but it didn't touch Morrison runs, hell he had enough pull for references to Batman's outsiders to remain in continuity.)

Yeah, not really, sadly. The Outsiders thing probably slipped trough editorial, as that came out in a time that New 52 continuity was still in a flux period and kinds of inconsistencies made it to the books once in a while. He actually was pretty disappointed for not being able to use Oracle/Steph/Cass in the post-reboot as well.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think these rooms were that should've stuck around?

Out of the top of my head; the existence of a previous incarnation of the Titans, some sort of space mythology outside the Green Lanterns (LEGION, REBELS, that kind of stuff), changes in the JL lineup in the five year window and some relationships, even if at earlier states (Jordan-Ollie, Dick-Wally, Ollie-Dinah, that sort of thing).

And not all of it should have been used from day one, for sure, but it shouldn't be out-of-reach to creative teams, either.