Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[shooshoomanjoe]

Anyone else like to see a Peter w/out powers story? Not a long arc...just a single issue and Peter has to get by on his martial arts skills and brains to save the day.

It was done in the 90s and it was a fun arc.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Here's a new controversial opinion:

Steve Ditko is the true creator of Spider-Man.

Not "Stan Lee came up with it, but Ditko put his equal spin on it", "Not it was a 50-50 split collaboration", it was Ditko who created Spider-Man plain and simple.

[SpiderClops]

Here's a new controversial opinion:

Steve Ditko is the true creator of Spider-Man.

Not "Stan Lee came up with it, but Ditko put his equal spin on it", "Not it was a 50-50 split collaboration", it was Ditko who created Spider-Man plain and simple.

That's less of an opinion and more of a conspiracy theory.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

That's less of an opinion and more of a conspiracy theory.

The page is "Controversial Spider-Man Opinions" and not attack an opinion you dislike because you think it's controversial, lol.

But basically, after reading up some of the material on the production of AF#15, as well as Jack Kirby's involvement in Spider-Man, the question needs to be asked.

-- Stan Lee didn't create the name of the hero - "Spiderman" originated in Simon and Kirby's studios as one of the titles for the hero that became The Fly, which failed, and which Kirby brought to Stan as a do-over. Tom Brevoort himself gives credit to Kirby for this (https://tombrevoort.com/2020/10/24/l...r-and-the-fly/)
-- Jack Kirby's original proposal for Spiderman contributed the concept of the hero living with his Aunt and Uncle. Although it isn't known if any of them are named here (Jack Kirby did work on a comic about golf called "On the links with Peter Parr" (https://www.comics.org/issue/770866/) a few years back, so it might be that he came up with 'Peter Parker'.
-- Steve Ditko created the costume or gimmick (Spider-Man's entire costume design, as well as the web-shooter design and what powers he should have). Ditko also plotted the first issue of AF#15, which means that Ditko came up with the plot twist of Peter lets the Burglar go who kills his Uncle. Ditko also wrote directions for the dialogue.

Basically Jack Kirby contributed far more to the creation of Spider-Man than Stan Lee did, and there's a strong case to argue that the credits should be Spider-Man created by Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby.

Stan Lee's contributions are:
-- The hyphen, that's him 100%
-- The dialogue and captions.

And if you had something like the WGA arbitration committee for comics, Stan Lee didn't contribute proportionately to merit a credit.

So fundamentally, Spider-Man is Ditko's creation.

[PCN24454]

The page is "Controversial Spider-Man Opinions" and not attack an opinion you dislike because you think it's controversial, lol.

They're saying that this isn't an opinion at all.

[SpiderClops]

The page is "Controversial Spider-Man Opinions" and not attack an opinion you dislike because you think it's controversial, lol.

But basically, after reading up some of the material on the production of AF#15, as well as Jack Kirby's involvement in Spider-Man, the question needs to be asked.

-- Stan Lee didn't create the name of the hero - "Spiderman" originated in Simon and Kirby's studios as one of the titles for the hero that became The Fly, which failed, and which Kirby brought to Stan as a do-over. Tom Brevoort himself gives credit to Kirby for this (https://tombrevoort.com/2020/10/24/l...r-and-the-fly/)
-- Jack Kirby's original proposal for Spiderman contributed the concept of the hero living with his Aunt and Uncle. Although it isn't known if any of them are named here (Jack Kirby did work on a comic about golf called "On the links with Peter Parr" (https://www.comics.org/issue/770866/) a few years back, so it might be that he came up with 'Peter Parker'.
-- Steve Ditko created the costume or gimmick (Spider-Man's entire costume design, as well as the web-shooter design and what powers he should have). Ditko also plotted the first issue of AF#15, which means that Ditko came up with the plot twist of Peter lets the Burglar go who kills his Uncle. Ditko also wrote directions for the dialogue.

Basically Jack Kirby contributed far more to the creation of Spider-Man than Stan Lee did, and there's a strong case to argue that the credits should be Spider-Man created by Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby.

Stan Lee's contributions are:
-- The hyphen, that's him 100%
-- The dialogue and captions.

And if you had something like the WGA arbitration committee for comics, Stan Lee didn't contribute proportionately to merit a credit.

So fundamentally, Spider-Man is Ditko's creation.

I'm not attacking you. But what you're doing isn't stating your opnion.

[JTHM]

The page is "Controversial Spider-Man Opinions" and not attack an opinion you dislike because you think it's controversial, lol.

But basically, after reading up some of the material on the production of AF#15, as well as Jack Kirby's involvement in Spider-Man, the question needs to be asked.

-- Stan Lee didn't create the name of the hero - "Spiderman" originated in Simon and Kirby's studios as one of the titles for the hero that became The Fly, which failed, and which Kirby brought to Stan as a do-over. Tom Brevoort himself gives credit to Kirby for this (https://tombrevoort.com/2020/10/24/l...r-and-the-fly/)
-- Jack Kirby's original proposal for Spiderman contributed the concept of the hero living with his Aunt and Uncle. Although it isn't known if any of them are named here (Jack Kirby did work on a comic about golf called "On the links with Peter Parr" (https://www.comics.org/issue/770866/) a few years back, so it might be that he came up with 'Peter Parker'.
-- Steve Ditko created the costume or gimmick (Spider-Man's entire costume design, as well as the web-shooter design and what powers he should have). Ditko also plotted the first issue of AF#15, which means that Ditko came up with the plot twist of Peter lets the Burglar go who kills his Uncle. Ditko also wrote directions for the dialogue.

Basically Jack Kirby contributed far more to the creation of Spider-Man than Stan Lee did, and there's a strong case to argue that the credits should be Spider-Man created by Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby.

Stan Lee's contributions are:
-- The hyphen, that's him 100%
-- The dialogue and captions.

And if you had something like the WGA arbitration committee for comics, Stan Lee didn't contribute proportionately to merit a credit.

So fundamentally, Spider-Man is Ditko's creation.

Yeah, like. This isn't an opinion. "Spider-Man is Steve Ditko's sole creation" is a statement of fact. It either is or it isn't, but it's not something subjective and subject to one's own preferences.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, like. This isn't an opinion. "Spider-Man is Steve Ditko's sole creation" is a statement of fact. It either is or it isn't, but it's not something subjective and subject to one's own preferences.

There's no hard documentary evidence pointing one way or another, so in the absence of that you have to choose what you think is the most plausible explanation and give your opinion as to the reason why.

Hence...here we are.

[PCN24454]

A shared universe is a storytelling shortcut nothing more.

Removing it wouldn't automatically make Superman better without you consciously deciding to do better storytelling.

A good tip for storytelling is JMS saying there is a 1000 stories I could tell with a married Peter Parker and a 1000 more I could tell with a single Peter Parker. I'm paraphrasing but I think the point is clear.

I'm not convinced he could do either tbh.

[Mister Mets]

Yeah, like. This isn't an opinion. "Spider-Man is Steve Ditko's sole creation" is a statement of fact. It either is or it isn't, but it's not something subjective and subject to one's own preferences.

I get what you're saying here. I would personally distinguish between an opinion (based on something subjective) and a belief (where there is an objective truth even if we don't know what it is.) That said, it's pretty normal to conflate the two in these types of discussions.

[SpiderClops]

Half the time I think Peter deserves better girls than he gets. Including MJ sometimes.

[Spidey_62]

I don't know if this is "controversial" per say but Marvel should give the MC2 universe and Spider-Girl another chance. Especially now with what DC has been doing with their Future State books, and the fact that Marvel's new distribution partner will probably allow for wider availability. I believe MC2 really started as a mass market push but deals fell apart not too long after and it all just went back to direct market where it didn't do as well.

Spider-Girl was sustained by fans for over 10 years. Didn't really do great in the direct market but fans showed up, now the Scholastic digests books is where it really smashed it in sales apparently. I'd be interested in seeing how that stacked up to the direct market Marvel sales around the time. I feel like it's a bit of a missed opportunity not putting more stock into getting a character like Spider-Girl out there. Sure, there's Spider-Gwen these days but why not both? Spider-Girl is still the longest lasting female-led Marvel title and has a fanbase, I just think if it was pushed in the right markets it could really make a dent even today.

[PCN24454]

The problem with the MC2 is that it highlights how stagnate the current universe is. If MC2 replaced the current universe, I would be fine, but it feels weird to have them together.

[Spidey_62]

The problem with the MC2 is that it highlights how stagnate the current universe is. If MC2 replaced the current universe, I would be fine, but it feels weird to have them together.

We musn't let the fans become aware of how stagnant the comics are!! Yeah, I get that lol. That's part of why MC2 was always so appealing to some fans I think, cause it just allowed things to feel like they naturally progressed in a way they can't in the main 616.

Honestly it's a bit of a disconnect for me the longer I'm a fan of this stuff- like the credibility of the world just keeps getting stretched further and further. So much crazy stuff happens to these characters and they usually just reset it back to default, die a few times, rinse, repeat. It feels disingenuous when they keep making dumber mistakes to feel like they're learning stuff when they're just back to square one. Like the constant shifting status quos for Peter especially in the last decade or so: First he's married, then he's not, then he's a big scientist, then he's dead and Doc Ock, then he's not dead and not Doc Ock, then he owns a company and has a lot of resources, then he doesn't, then he's back at the Daily Bugle, then he's back in college again, then he's thinking about being married again.

I think I'd have less of a problem with it all if they weren't so hell-bent on crazy status quo changes all the time that are always meant to take the character somewhere new but only to a certain extent so they can hit factory-reset when it ran its course. It just clutters the cohesiveness of the world seeing the character build up one way and seeing them fall so many times. Marvel wants Peter to always be a loser who always fails in the end lol, maybe not literally but that's how it comes across sometimes when the line is towed.

Spencer commented on the stupid loop his life is stuck in, from #60 recently, but the self-awareness just highlights that even they know this stuff is stretched thin at this point. Even stuff like King in Black, oh no it's the fiftieth time the MU has had a world-ending event in the last 15 years of comic time. Like it's a fine story on its own but when you take it with the whole pie it's just overwhelming to think about all this happening honestly.

Same with stuff like Spider-Gwen just being a regular character that pops in cause she's popular. I liked that character most when she was doing her own thing in her own world, her own cast, not when she's in 616 so Spidey can hang out with another version of his dead old girlfriend every few months. I know when Spider-Girl was going editors often wanted them to bring her over to 616 or kill the parents, and to me those are the most obvious and lazy paths you can take. Big parts of the appeal with a thing like that was the unique world and the family dynamic, so of course the first time anybody else got hands on it they messed with the family dynamic and had her around just for dimension hopping. I think when Spider-Gwen first was going on a big appeal was the unique world as well, but now that's all but gone too.

[Spiderfan001]

Half the time I think Peter deserves better girls than he gets. Including MJ sometimes.

Me too bud.I wish they had utilized BND era better and gave us more superhero relationships instead of Carlie.Although all that is now at an end