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  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It comes off as an attack on the validity of Peter's relationship with MJ and how much he loved her versus Gwen, especially since the height of it was at a time when people were severely downplaying Mary Jane's role in the franchise.
    I find it funny considering how it was mostly Peter who was portrayed as being in the wrong since he was bringing unnecessary danger to her when she could've been more successful without him.

  2. #1022
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I remember that Batman being a piece of shit, it's why Infinite Crisis even happened, since Batman being such a piece of shit is one of the many things that pissed off Earth 2 Supes, wasn't aware that extended to his family though.

    Wonder if Batman being such a piece of shit in the comics is why YJ Bruce is so uncharacteristically nice... Even though the cartoon tries to pretend he's the usual Bruce lol.



    Nah I don't care about this shipping war, only reason I even kinda like Peter and MJ being together is because it improves their characters (Specially MJs), if it didn't, or they were better off separated, then I'd prefer for them to not be together, or at least hoping that if they are to be together, for their characters to improve.

    So yeah, I just mock Gwen for being said to be this major, yet, she's worse as a love interest than even Debra Whitman, or at least as bad as Debra lol.



    Sounds like an "eye for an eye" situation, like, sure, Gwen is a bad character, but bashing can easily reach toxic levels, so better be careful with that.



    Oh yeah, forgot that mini, did it manage to finish when the whole Corona nonsense was happening or was it cancelled?



    Nah, there's no justification at all, 'cause you definitely don't have the moral high ground with this kind of mentality.



    Best Gwen is Ditko Gwen, those eyebrows were epic .
    Some fans can exagerate it, but still happens too often sadly.

    The Gwen mini was cancelled, i kind of dig it, not because of Gwen but all the continuity fanservice, Todd Nauck arts and Norman being unintentionally hilarious like that scene when apparently feel the need to show that Norman is evil by drawing the face of the Green Goblin behind it (in case that you needed clarification about alingment status of course) or telling Harry "And don't do drugs Harry, illegal ones i mean" lol.

    Also yes, those were epic eyebrows
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  3. #1023
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I remember that Batman being a piece of shit, it's why Infinite Crisis even happened, since Batman being such a piece of shit is one of the many things that pissed off Earth 2 Supes, wasn't aware that extended to his family though.

    Wonder if Batman being such a piece of shit in the comics is why YJ Bruce is so uncharacteristically nice... Even though the cartoon tries to pretend he's the usual Bruce lol.
    I mean, I'd say as a general rule Batman is nicer than people give him credit for, but YJ Bruce kind of starts reaching that level in Outsiders.

  4. #1024
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Some fans can exagerate it, but still happens too often sadly.
    Not surprising, Batman is popular but he also has a lot of people who hate him lol.

    The Gwen mini was cancelled, i kind of dig it, not because of Gwen but all the continuity fanservice, Todd Nauck arts and Norman being unintentionally hilarious like that scene when apparently feel the need to show that Norman is evil by drawing the face of the Green Goblin behind it (in case that you needed clarification about alingment status of course) or telling Harry "And don't do drugs Harry, illegal ones i mean" lol.
    That sounds unintentionally hilarious... Norman of all people specifying that you shouldn't do illegal drugs, sure, it's referencing that Drug Trilogy is gonna happen later, but it sounds like a funny line even in that context lol.

    Also yes, those were epic eyebrows
    I legit started to read Ditko era of ASM because I saw scans from it, and thought her eyebrows were hilarious and decide to read it to see more of them.

    Then turns out Gwen debutted around Master Planner trilogy, which was a pretty good story, which made me go back to read the whole thing, and while Ditko era has a lot of issues, and nothing else in on Master Planner's level, I really liked his interpretation of Peter.

    So yeah, Gwen's eyebrows made me check out the classics .

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I'd say as a general rule Batman is nicer than people give him credit for,
    Yeah his most consistent problem is that he's emotionally neglectful, which is bad enough by itself, but he's not abusive to the point of making people's lives around him awful, he tries even though he's an ass.

    but YJ Bruce kind of starts reaching that level in Outsiders.
    Ah, man, Outsiders... The whole "Anti-Light" shit was so dumb, like, sure it could be seen as them trying to be pragmatic, but emphasis is on trying, 'cause despite making that whole nonsense to use The Light's own game against them, they were so incompetent that it would make no difference if it wasn't there.

    Best example of this is in that episode they invade Russia, Kaldur'ahm went there without UN's authorization, since League members can't just do that, Waller found out, and essentially made him her bitch with the blackmail... Like what the fuck, those idiots split up specifically to be able to travel to other countries to do super heroing without UN getting in the way, the one time they have the chance to use that on-screen, they don't? And Kaldur'ahm of all people didn't realize this, despite being a genius strategist? Yeah...

    About Bruce in Outsiders though, the scene where Barbara essentially says he's more at fault than everyone else? It's really stupid.

    Now let's make one thing clear, I don't really care about Bruce, he's a character who can be fun, but DC kisses his ass so much by making him into Batgod that the fucker is kinda soured on me, and one of the things that fill me with the most childlike glee is seeing his own dumbass methods backfiring on him and characters pointing out how much a piece of shit he is, but that scene in Ousiders just doesn't work.

    While Barbara points out that she's at fault for being involved in Anti-Light, she also says that Bruce is more at fault, because most of the people from Anti-Light are his protégés who are used to his methods without question, and the one person who isn't, Diana, is in space and she can't be involved as much (Even though she's involved in every reunion they have we see). And that point is fucking stupid, because M'Gann and Kaldur'ahm aren't his protégés, all Bruce did was tell them how to do their missions, which they often ignored his orders to do their own thing anyways, so those two can't be considered his protégés; then there's Dick, all the way back in season 1 he said he didn't want to be like Batman, which Bruce even specifically says he doesn't want Dick to be like him, so you could expect him kinda not count too... And it's also worth pointing out that both Dick and Kaldur'ahm tried this "Lie to your allies to have advantage on the enemy" bullshit and everyone said they were morons for doing that.

    So basically, the cartoon tries to say "Bruce is more at fault because he made a bunch of people who are used to his ways and don't question him to be involved so his way of doing it remains absolute", but that doesn't work if you think about it, two people aren't his protégés and whenever Bruce sent them on missions they ignored his orders (Which is even how the Team was made in the first place, since they invaded Cadmus without authorization), one of them is the League's fucking leader so he should know how to do things without needing someone else's advice, and there's Dick who at least said he doesn't wanna be like Batman, plus they're all adults, and even if they are used to his ways, doesn't mean you can try a "Bruce is more at fault because we're used to his ways" bullshit because it makes it look like Barbara is kinda deflecting the blame to save face, and arguably, if anyone is more at fault than the rest, it's Dick and Kaldur'ahm for trying to pull the same shit, since they know how bad it is, yet they decided to try again?

    So yeah, while Outsiders Batman is closer to the usual Bruce (Even if he's still nicer by actually letting other people in what he's planning lol), the cartoon for some inexplicable reason decided to say he's more at fault than everyone else, because apparently Barbara thinks that just because they're used to Bruce's ways, completely ignoring that two of them can't count as protégés, they're not as responsible as him for doing that shit despite being adults? Fuck Barbara man lol.

    I'll also point out that it's rather awkward that Bruce and Lex become closer to their comics characterization when they weren't like that in seasons 1 and 2, although Bruce's works a bit better since he didn't have as much screen time, Lex just looks weird by suddenly becoming so much dumber, kinda weird the cartoon would choose to ignore its own context...

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I remember that Batman being a piece of shit, it's why Infinite Crisis even happened, since Batman being such a piece of shit is one of the many things that pissed off Earth 2 Supes, wasn't aware that extended to his family though.

    Wonder if Batman being such a piece of shit in the comics is why YJ Bruce is so uncharacteristically nice... Even though the cartoon tries to pretend he's the usual Bruce lol
    As others have pointed out, despite being the asocial one, Batman is much less likely to work alone. It only looks that way because he doesn't work the Justice League; he mostly just gives orders and operational wisdom.

    Superman, by contrast, is far more likely to do everything by himself. He doens't have to mediate with sidekicks and partners like other superheroes do.

    Batman should be better than him in that regard by experience alone.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I haven't seen any writers use Gwen to attack MJ. Saying they see her as the love of Peter's life or that they simply prefer her over MJ is not an attack or even a sign they hate MJ.
    I think the Amazing Spider-man films really fanned the flames there. Those films pretty explicitly replaced Mary Jane with a version of Gwen Stacy, and then the cast and crew bashed MJ during promo in order to prop up their version of Gwen.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...arfield-301779

    It seems like she’s much more of Peter's intellectual equal than maybe Mary Jane was.

    Stone: Yes, because he's second in their class. I think that's a huge part of her attraction to Peter, that he's a stand-up guy in this version of the movie. I mean, from the very beginning, he displays some very heroic qualities, but he's mysterious to her; they haven't really ever connected even though they've been in school for a long time. So her attraction is very clear from the very beginning; it's not him coming after her, it's kind of more her interest is piqued by him.

    Webb: In the comics, Gwen fell for Peter Parker, and Mary Jane was always more after Spider-Man.
    And then a lot of that toxicity began to seep into the fandom. Mind you this was also only a few years after OMD and the comics were actively downplaying Mary Jane's significance at the time...so a lot of MJ fans were already very annoyed. Prior to 2012, I don't recall nearly as many MJ v. Gwen discussions. Thankfully, that type of toxicity seems to be dying down.

  7. #1027
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Not surprising, Batman is popular but he also has a lot of people who hate him lol.



    That sounds unintentionally hilarious... Norman of all people specifying that you shouldn't do illegal drugs, sure, it's referencing that Drug Trilogy is gonna happen later, but it sounds like a funny line even in that context lol.



    I legit started to read Ditko era of ASM because I saw scans from it, and thought her eyebrows were hilarious and decide to read it to see more of them.

    Then turns out Gwen debutted around Master Planner trilogy, which was a pretty good story, which made me go back to read the whole thing, and while Ditko era has a lot of issues, and nothing else in on Master Planner's level, I really liked his interpretation of Peter.

    So yeah, Gwen's eyebrows made me check out the classics .



    Yeah his most consistent problem is that he's emotionally neglectful, which is bad enough by itself, but he's not abusive to the point of making people's lives around him awful, he tries even though he's an ass.



    Ah, man, Outsiders... The whole "Anti-Light" shit was so dumb, like, sure it could be seen as them trying to be pragmatic, but emphasis is on trying, 'cause despite making that whole nonsense to use The Light's own game against them, they were so incompetent that it would make no difference if it wasn't there.

    Best example of this is in that episode they invade Russia, Kaldur'ahm went there without UN's authorization, since League members can't just do that, Waller found out, and essentially made him her bitch with the blackmail... Like what the fuck, those idiots split up specifically to be able to travel to other countries to do super heroing without UN getting in the way, the one time they have the chance to use that on-screen, they don't? And Kaldur'ahm of all people didn't realize this, despite being a genius strategist? Yeah...

    About Bruce in Outsiders though, the scene where Barbara essentially says he's more at fault than everyone else? It's really stupid.

    Now let's make one thing clear, I don't really care about Bruce, he's a character who can be fun, but DC kisses his ass so much by making him into Batgod that the fucker is kinda soured on me, and one of the things that fill me with the most childlike glee is seeing his own dumbass methods backfiring on him and characters pointing out how much a piece of shit he is, but that scene in Ousiders just doesn't work.

    While Barbara points out that she's at fault for being involved in Anti-Light, she also says that Bruce is more at fault, because most of the people from Anti-Light are his protégés who are used to his methods without question, and the one person who isn't, Diana, is in space and she can't be involved as much (Even though she's involved in every reunion they have we see). And that point is fucking stupid, because M'Gann and Kaldur'ahm aren't his protégés, all Bruce did was tell them how to do their missions, which they often ignored his orders to do their own thing anyways, so those two can't be considered his protégés; then there's Dick, all the way back in season 1 he said he didn't want to be like Batman, which Bruce even specifically says he doesn't want Dick to be like him, so you could expect him kinda not count too... And it's also worth pointing out that both Dick and Kaldur'ahm tried this "Lie to your allies to have advantage on the enemy" bullshit and everyone said they were morons for doing that.

    So basically, the cartoon tries to say "Bruce is more at fault because he made a bunch of people who are used to his ways and don't question him to be involved so his way of doing it remains absolute", but that doesn't work if you think about it, two people aren't his protégés and whenever Bruce sent them on missions they ignored his orders (Which is even how the Team was made in the first place, since they invaded Cadmus without authorization), one of them is the League's fucking leader so he should know how to do things without needing someone else's advice, and there's Dick who at least said he doesn't wanna be like Batman, plus they're all adults, and even if they are used to his ways, doesn't mean you can try a "Bruce is more at fault because we're used to his ways" bullshit because it makes it look like Barbara is kinda deflecting the blame to save face, and arguably, if anyone is more at fault than the rest, it's Dick and Kaldur'ahm for trying to pull the same shit, since they know how bad it is, yet they decided to try again?

    So yeah, while Outsiders Batman is closer to the usual Bruce (Even if he's still nicer by actually letting other people in what he's planning lol), the cartoon for some inexplicable reason decided to say he's more at fault than everyone else, because apparently Barbara thinks that just because they're used to Bruce's ways, completely ignoring that two of them can't count as protégés, they're not as responsible as him for doing that shit despite being adults? Fuck Barbara man lol.

    I'll also point out that it's rather awkward that Bruce and Lex become closer to their comics characterization when they weren't like that in seasons 1 and 2, although Bruce's works a bit better since he didn't have as much screen time, Lex just looks weird by suddenly becoming so much dumber, kinda weird the cartoon would choose to ignore its own context...
    I'm pretty sure that it was intentionally hilarious, especially with Harry's expression after saying that, really Norman is pretty funny in that mini.

    Lol, never thought that i would see the day that Gwen's eyebrow make someone read Classic Spider-Man.

    Wow, nice rant with YJ, personally i haven't got past episode 19, my overall opinion of that season is very...mix, leaning a bit more toward bad than good.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  8. #1028
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    As others have pointed out, despite being the asocial one, Batman is much less likely to work alone. It only looks that way because he doesn't work the Justice League; he mostly just gives orders and operational wisdom.

    Superman, by contrast, is far more likely to do everything by himself. He doens't have to mediate with sidekicks and partners like other superheroes do.

    Batman should be better than him in that regard by experience alone.
    I mean, Batman is pretty good at teams, he's just not good with people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I think the Amazing Spider-man films really fanned the flames there. Those films pretty explicitly replaced Mary Jane with a version of Gwen Stacy, and then the cast and crew bashed MJ during promo in order to prop up their version of Gwen.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...arfield-301779



    And then a lot of that toxicity began to seep into the fandom. Mind you this was also only a few years after OMD and the comics were actively downplaying Mary Jane's significance at the time...so a lot of MJ fans were already very annoyed. Prior to 2012, I don't recall nearly as many MJ v. Gwen discussions. Thankfully, that type of toxicity seems to be dying down.
    Urgh, who started this "MJ cares more about Spider-Man then Peter" nonsense? Slott is the earliest one I remember, and it was dumb for him to suggest that, specially considering he uses Parallel Lives as an argument for that, when PL shows that MJ had a crush on Spidey, but started to realize what kind of person that made Peter into and avoided him for a while, while also admiring him... Basically, that story made it obvious she saw Peter Parker as a whole, not just the hero who makes dumb jokes, and not just the easy going nerd, so saying she fell only for Spider-Man is misreading in a hilarious way.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I'm pretty sure that it was intentionally hilarious, especially with Harry's expression after saying that, really Norman is pretty funny in that mini.
    I guess it's because Green Goblin was goofier at the time for those comments, might check it out just to see that lol.

    Lol, never thought that i would see the day that Gwen's eyebrow make someone read Classic Spider-Man.
    Yeah I can start to read something or play games because of weird whims, and Gwen's eyebrows were just something I had to see in every angle .

    Hell, I'd for sure read her mini ASAP if she had the Ditko eyebrows .

    Wow, nice rant with YJ, personally i haven't got past episode 19, my overall opinion of that season is very...mix, leaning a bit more toward bad than good.
    You stopped 3 episodes before the dumb Barbara scene happened lol.

    And yeah, I feel that YJ becomes worse per season, first one is still the best one and whenever I go check out a scene in a random episode from the first season, it makes me want to binge watch the whole thing, same thing happens when I check out a random scene from Spectacular... Season 2, while fun, it made the League even worse, started this "Time skip means we don't have to explain" trend, so we lose shit like Jason becoming Robin then dying, M'Gann became more aggressive for some reason, The Light became more obnoxious Villain Sues while also having focus in less members... Season 3 repeated a lot of season 2's plot points (Noticeably the "League is away from Earth", which season 2 used for that trial so it explains why they're doing nothing, season 3 has them going after Apokolips stuff and they never achieve anything, so essentially they're just as useless even though they should be doing more), and by repeating those, it got the same problems, plus more like spreading itself too thin with the amount of characters, Idiot Plot becoming more noticeable, less Static (Static was the best thing about season 2), awkward moments where characters just don't talk, this whole bullshit argument Barbara made, borrowing the art style from the New 52 movies, which while more detailed, makes the fight scenes worse because it's more detailed, and some other shit... That makes me fear that season 4 will continue the trend and be even worse than season 3, and I hope I'm wrong.

  9. #1029
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I mean, Batman is pretty good at teams, he's just not good with people.
    And even that can depend on the writer.
    And yeah, I feel that YJ becomes worse per season, first one is still the best one and whenever I go check out a scene in a random episode from the first season, it makes me want to binge watch the whole thing, same thing happens when I check out a random scene from Spectacular... Season 2, while fun, it made the League even worse, started this "Time skip means we don't have to explain" trend, so we lose shit like Jason becoming Robin then dying, M'Gann became more aggressive for some reason, The Light became more obnoxious Villain Sues while also having focus in less members... Season 3 repeated a lot of season 2's plot points (Noticeably the "League is away from Earth", which season 2 used for that trial so it explains why they're doing nothing, season 3 has them going after Apokolips stuff and they never achieve anything, so essentially they're just as useless even though they should be doing more), and by repeating those, it got the same problems, plus more like spreading itself too thin with the amount of characters, Idiot Plot becoming more noticeable, less Static (Static was the best thing about season 2), awkward moments where characters just don't talk, this whole bullshit argument Barbara made, borrowing the art style from the New 52 movies, which while more detailed, makes the fight scenes worse because it's more detailed, and some other shit... That makes me fear that season 4 will continue the trend and be even worse than season 3, and I hope I'm wrong.
    You weren't invested in Virgil constantly complaining about wanting a girlfriend ?

    Oh yeah, season 3 was where it became really obvious how much the show was stretching its voice cast when they had characters going through significant stuff but getting no dialogue because their VA is obviously not in that episode.

    I didn't mind the DC Animated Feature designs being used at first but it's just wholesale jarring to see designs from an entirely different continuity pop up for significant characters (if not main ones) and shift the art style a little. It detracts from the show standing out. And sometimes it just seems Bourassa (the main character designer) got kind of lazy, especially when the only difference between his Shiva designs are whether she's wearing pants .

    Granted, now that that continuity is over I guess they don't need to worry about that, so Superman's Reborn suit will live on in YJ.

  10. #1030
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    Batman was mission coordinator to Kaldur and M'Gann in season 1. Even if they aren't his prodigies, they do have a history of following his orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I think the Amazing Spider-man films really fanned the flames there. Those films pretty explicitly replaced Mary Jane with a version of Gwen Stacy, and then the cast and crew bashed MJ during promo in order to prop up their version of Gwen.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...arfield-301779



    And then a lot of that toxicity began to seep into the fandom. Mind you this was also only a few years after OMD and the comics were actively downplaying Mary Jane's significance at the time...so a lot of MJ fans were already very annoyed. Prior to 2012, I don't recall nearly as many MJ v. Gwen discussions. Thankfully, that type of toxicity seems to be dying down.
    I'll concede to this but the worst I can say is that the writers were trying to drum up support for Gwen and went about in a slightly overzealous way. Which is still tame compared to how MJ fans reacted.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 11-29-2020 at 09:48 PM.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Batman was mission coordinator to Kaldur and M'Gann in season 1. Even if they aren't his prodigies, they do have a history of following his orders.
    Yeah, I'd say he was a casual mentor to the entire Team when he was in charge of them, if not to the extent of the Batfamily, but I'm not sure I'd expect them to all defer to him as adults (unless we use the excuse of "well, he's Batman).

  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And even that can depend on the writer.
    Well, yeah, but what I said is rather consistent.

    You weren't invested in Virgil constantly complaining about wanting a girlfriend ?
    Dude, when I realized that most of Static's screen time, and dialogues, were from that girlfriend thing, this was more or less my reaction:



    So annoying he got a new design, but was pretty much only used for that.

    Oh yeah, season 3 was where it became really obvious how much the show was stretching its voice cast when they had characters going through significant stuff but getting no dialogue because their VA is obviously not in that episode.
    My favorite example is the Kenny-girl (Y'know, the one who keeps dying) seeing Geo-Force killing his uncle, and all she does are a bunch of shocked and sad grunts, then crying later, without saying anything lol.

    I didn't mind the DC Animated Feature designs being used at first but it's just wholesale jarring to see designs from an entirely different continuity pop up for significant characters (if not main ones) and shift the art style a little. It detracts from the show standing out. And sometimes it just seems Bourassa (the main character designer) got kind of lazy,
    Yeah there's more than one problem with the switch.

    especially when the only difference between his Shiva designs are whether she's wearing pants .
    So did she stop wearing pants or start wearing 'em? Depending on the answer, it tells you something about her character :P.

    Granted, now that that continuity is over I guess they don't need to worry about that, so Superman's Reborn suit will live on in YJ.
    That can solve the costume issue, but what about art-style? 'Cause that's the one I have the most problems with lol.

    Also, had forgotten that continuity is over, apparently it ended with Flash making another Flashpoint... Great Barry, you haven't learned a thing... Bet it's treated like a good ending too lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Batman was mission coordinator to Kaldur and M'Gann in season 1. Even if they aren't his prodigies, they do have a history of following his orders.
    And all he did there was say "Team, I have a mission for you, these are your instructions", which means he wasn't that involved with them since the Team acted by itself with no interference from him, and they'd likely go against his instructions, which he actually kinda praised them for it in the Santa Prisca mission in episode 4 because they adapted well to the situation, while also saying they made many mistakes lol.

    So yeah, at best they were told to do missions his way, but didn't always follow it, and didn't work, or even live under him enough to be a "protégé", so this is one of the many problems with Barbara's argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I'd say he was a casual mentor to the entire Team when he was in charge of them, if not to the extent of the Batfamily, but I'm not sure I'd expect them to all defer to him as adults (unless we use the excuse of "well, he's Batman).
    Bruce is so nerfed in this cartoon, I doubt "Well, he's Batman" would work :P.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 11-29-2020 at 10:18 PM.

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Well, yeah, but what I said is rather consistent.
    Yeah, but good and nice Batman's can be consistent too .
    Dude, when I realized that most of Static's screen time, and dialogues, were from that girlfriend thing, this was more or less my reaction:



    So annoying he got a new design, but was pretty much only used for that.
    Sometime more screentime isn't the best thing.
    My favorite example is the Kenny-girl (Y'know, the one who keeps dying) seeing Geo-Force killing his uncle, and all she does are a bunch of shocked and sad grunts, then crying later, without saying anything lol.
    Halo? Wow, now that you mention it, did she not get any dialogue in that last episode? Jeez.
    So did she stop wearing pants or start wearing 'em? Depending on the answer, it tells you something about her character :P.
    One version wears pants, the other version doesn't. Different continuities but similar designs save for that feature.
    That can solve the costume issue, but what about art-style? 'Cause that's the one I have the most problems with lol.

    Also, had forgotten that continuity is over, apparently it ended with Flash making another Flashpoint... Great Barry, you haven't learned a thing... Bet it's treated like a good ending too lol.
    The art style didn't seem to shift that much to me, but there were obviously budget cuts.

    In the case of Barry needing to cause another Flashpoint...it was very warranted in that situation.
    And all he did there was say "Team, I have a mission for you, these are your instructions", which means he wasn't that involved with them since the Team acted by itself with no interference from him, and they'd likely go against his instructions, which he actually kinda praised them for it in the Santa Prisca mission in episode 4 because they adapted well to the situation, while also saying they made many mistakes lol.

    So yeah, at best they were told to do missions his way, but didn't always follow it, and didn't work, or even live under him enough to be a "protégé", so this is one of the many problems with Barbara's argument.
    I'd have to re-watch season 1 but I think I can recall maybe 2-3 casual mentor moments that weren't just ordering them around, but I can't say for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'll concede to this but the worst I can say is that the writers were trying to drum up support for Gwen and went about in a slightly overzealous way. Which is still tame compared to how MJ fans reacted.
    It didn't help that it was, again, coming at a time where writers were trying to really downplay MJ's significance to the franchise and her accomplishments as a character.

  14. #1034
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, but good and nice Batman's can be consistent too .
    Guess so, he can be more than those traits lol.

    Sometime more screentime isn't the best thing.
    And my boy Static is peak example of that in season 3...

    Halo? Wow, now that you mention it, did she not get any dialogue in that last episode? Jeez.
    Yeah, her, and I checked here, the only voice clips she had in the last episode were doing a surprised gasp when Geo-Force killed his uncle, and quietly crying on Forager's arms once they're back to their base, which is so quiet it might be another voice actress, she didn't make a sound when he offered her to rule alongside him, or when she started to cry on Artemis' arms soon after...

    Forager also doesn't talk at all in that episode, and considering how close he was to Geo-Force, it's weird he wasn't saying anything, Geo-Force's brother also said nothing while watching the news... Seriously, three of the closest people to Geo-Force were suddenly mute, and considering what he did, yeah, very noticeable lol.

    At least Terra was talking... Then again, no way she wouldn't talk, episode can't work without her talking lol.

    One version wears pants, the other version doesn't. Different continuities but similar designs save for that feature.
    Oh, I thought Lady Shiva showed up before, and suddenly started or stopped wearing pants in season 3, that was a funny situation to imagine, too bad it's just different wardrobe between universes lol.

    The art style didn't seem to shift that much to me, but there were obviously budget cuts.
    It's noticeable because of the extra details, season 1 and 2 have a simpler looking art style that is closer to DCAU, season 3 adds extra details like the New 52 movies, which runs into the Dragon Ball Super problem or being more detailed, but harder to animate, and it's very ironic to use that when they have a smaller budget.

    The most noticeable example of this is Batman, he had a very simplistic design in season 1 and 2, but in 3, his cape shows more clear details of his shoulders and neck.

    I'm also not a fan of how "plastic" that art style looks.

    In the case of Barry needing to cause another Flashpoint...it was very warranted in that situation.
    Well, unless the Earth or universe was going to be destroyed, I don't see doing a Flashpoint as justified, fucking with the timeline is a huge deal.

    I'd have to re-watch season 1 but I think I can recall maybe 2-3 casual mentor moments that weren't just ordering them around, but I can't say for sure.
    There's at least the one where Kaldur'ahm was missing Atlantis and Bruce advised him to go there to solve whatever it was. There's also the one where he played basketball with Robin, but that was a "Batfamily" moment.

    So yeah, there are some moments, not saying Bruce was never close to them, but I'd say the season 1 Team was way closer to Red Tornado than Batman overall, which makes the claim that Kaldur'ahm and M'Gann are his protégés very questionable to say the least.

    Maybe I should use this as an excuse to binge watch season 1 again, check out what the hell the big bad Bat was doing, in all the three times he gets screen time .

    It didn't help that it was, again, coming at a time where writers were trying to really downplay MJ's significance to the franchise and her accomplishments as a character.
    Nah man, MJ was just Peter's supermodel wife who easily solved his issues, not much accomplishment in that .

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I'd say he was a casual mentor to the entire Team when he was in charge of them, if not to the extent of the Batfamily, but I'm not sure I'd expect them to all defer to him as adults (unless we use the excuse of "well, he's Batman).
    He's a senior member of the Justice League and he had been giving them orders for years prior to season 3.

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