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  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Overall, it felt like the number of supervillains he faced was too low for eight years. It kinda defeated the purpose of making him an "experienced" Spider-Man, IMO.
    This is why I think it's weird. It kinda hurts the "experienced" part.

    Plus, if you're going to sit on someone like Doc Ock, I feel the buildup to him should be big. The game should be aware that Peter hasn't faced anyone like him before. But instead Ock felt like villain of the week, or at worst like it was an origin for greater things to come.

  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That's not controversial. Bashing OMD-Discourse is quite common in Spider-Man fan circles. Even people who like the marriage and want it back don't like it.



    It being tiresome and so on, is a form of protest by fandom. It makes sure that there's a dark cloud in terms of discussing Spider-Man post BND and makes its defenders and others squirm and feel uncomfortable, so in that sense it gets the job done. Even Mark Waid has to clear his throat now and again.

    Remember when Spider-Man got married, the people who hated the marriage didn't accept it or take it lying down, they frothed on the mouth, they fulminated, they spat venom on people who liked the married Spider-Man, ran screeds in Wizard magazine and other places and did that for 20 years. It's disingenuous to now ask the other side to grin and bear it.
    The writers are not likely to hear the complaints. You know who will hear them, day in and day out, hour after hour? The other forum goers of course, so who're the real victims here?

  3. #678
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    The writers are not likely to hear the complaints.
    The writers do hear the complaints believe you me. Why do you think Dan Slott posted here so often back in the old days? Enough for it to become comics news.

  4. #679
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    The writers are not likely to hear the complaints. You know who will hear them, day in and day out, hour after hour? The other forum goers of course, so who're the real victims here?
    me myself and I
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  5. #680
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Remember when Spider-Man got married, the people who hated the marriage didn't accept it or take it lying down, they frothed on the mouth, they fulminated, they spat venom on people who liked the married Spider-Man, ran screeds in Wizard magazine and other places and did that for 20 years. It's disingenuous to now ask the other side to grin and bear it.
    What parallel universe did you come from?

    The people that didn't like the marriage would say so, but they didn't turn every single conversation about Spider-man into how the marriage was horrible. There was hardly anybody foaming at the mouth and ranting non-stop about how it ruined the character.

    Most people DID "take it laying down." They didn't like the marriage, but, hey, it happened. Moving right along.

    It being tiresome and so on, is a form of protest by fandom. It makes sure that there's a dark cloud in terms of discussing Spider-Man post BND and makes its defenders and others squirm and feel uncomfortable, so in that sense it gets the job done.
    If you're intention is to cast a dark cloud over Spider-man and ruin every single conversation, then you're not some noble crusader or heroic protestor. You're just being a dick.

    Really, that's the main reason I've stopped posting here so much, there's far too many whiny little babies that feel that since they can't have what they want, they have to spoil it for everybody else.

  6. #681
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    What parallel universe did you come from?
    Wizard magazine which never had a kind word to say about any stories of the marriage and which platformed Quesada a lot in his early part of his career. Also a lot of internet boards around 2004-2007, although they were small and a little inaccessible then. Of course social media and message boards and so on wasn't a thing (former) or as big as it is now (latter) but I know there were many dedicated little cells across the internet hating the marriage at the time.

    There was hardly anybody foaming at the mouth and ranting non-stop about how it ruined the character.
    Thor is it though meme.jpg

    Really, that's the main reason I've stopped posting here so much, there's far too many whiny little babies that feel that since they can't have what they want, they have to spoil it for everybody else.
    Comes to a thread about "Controversial Spider-Man Opinions". Gets upset at the discussion of controversial views. Calls people he disagrees with "whiny little babies".

    Ever heard of irony, my dude?
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 10-14-2020 at 06:32 PM.

  7. #682
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Wizard magazine which never had a kind word to say about any stories of the marriage and which platformed Quesada a lot in his early part of his career. Also a lot of internet boards around 2004-2007, although they were small and a little inaccessible then. Of course social media and message boards and so on wasn't a thing (former) or as big as it is now (latter) but I know there were many dedicated little cells across the internet hating the marriage at the time.
    So you're saying that there wasn't a lot of people complaining, but there were small little isolated groups so that's totally the same thing.

    And really, Wizard magazine? They weren't exactly a credible source even back then.

    Also, if you're going to use a meme to reply, make sure it's one that actually makes sense to use. Better yet, DON'T use memes to reply.

    Ever heard of irony, my dude?
    Like rain on your wedding day, right?

    So now you're complaining about me complaining about you complain. Let's see how far we can go with this.

    Right now though, you've openly admitted to disrupting topics and trying to make everyone that talks about Spider-man uncomfortable. You're not exactly taking the high ground here. It's one thing to state your opinion, or even to complain about things, but you're just going out of your way to be disruptive.

  8. #683
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Ultimate Spider-Man is AAA. AAA games (nobody knows what those three A's stand for btw) are any game put out by big publishers with high budget, graphics, on major ports. So USM, an open-world title on PC, PS2, XBox counts as AAA. As opposed to an "indie game" (think Limbo) or a mobile game.
    Think someone once told me it's supposed to mean quality, or something like that, which can be ironic if so, considering the half assed Triple A games we can have lol.

    Remember that Green Goblin was a fairly obscure character until the Sam Raimi movie in the popular culture. His death in the 1970s kept him off the table for a long time in terms of licensing and adaptation appearances. Norman's obscurity was the reason the Fox Cartoon introduced Hobgoblin first, against showrunner Semper's intentions because Avi Arad said that merchandising told him that kids recognized the Hobgoblin toy more than the Green Goblin one.

    The other reason is also the mentality behind what Arad said. Marvel saw licensed properties like cartoons and games as marketing gimmicks and not creative enterprises. They saw games and cartoons back then (and arguably still do today) not as creative mediums but a way to sell and hock their products. So it wasn't about giving an accurate take on the iconic classic villain or doing justice to a great Spider-Man character, it was about selling toys and merch. So that also explains the reluctance to feature Green Goblin in the 90s and 2000s in gaming. The major Green Goblin appearance owes itself to a movie licensed game as it is.

    Greg Weissman's Spectacular Spider-Man that was absolutely a labor of love devoted to getting the characters of the comics right and giving Green Goblin of the Lee-Ditko era his due but he was an exception, and after Disney bought Marvel you have these Disney-pap cartoons run by...none other than Steve Wacker, Quesada and Jeph Loeb....(yay?!), not exactly the individuals with the best creative taste or inclinations.
    I mean, it's still weird that games avoid using him even after he came back, and Sam Raimi helped with his popularity, I can understand why PS4 Spidey specifically avoids this, since they're saving him up for later, but most other games take place in a continuity heavily influenced by the comics, and Norman is a popular Goblin, so you'd think they would use him to sell more toys or whatever.

    The weird thing is that, he'd be fitting somewhat in Web of Shadows, considering we even have NPCs using gliders, but no Goblins, and the flight boss is Vulture, and I think the game was out before Norman took over SHIELD, so he could be used as Green Goblin there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That reminds me of the Vulture fight in Web of Shadows.
    Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike

    What a boring ass boss...

    Honestly though, here's another controversial opinion which I had forgotten to mention before, the combat of Spider-Man games is hardly anything above decent, the attacks may look cool and flashy, but the ways you can dodge attacks is very often poorly made which really hurts and makes the gameplay rather basic, but also poorly made, and the armor enemies have can be often poor placed making some enemies be hilarious jokes, or an annoying headache, and I'm not talking about obscure games nobody played, I mean games like Ultimate or Web of Shadows, at least PS4 Spidey is an actual improvement in some ways when compared to previous ones, and even that game's gameplay is nothing really special, since it has a lot of generic current Triple A shit, though it has potential, at least, with the costume powers and the webbing, but right now? Mostly generic, nothing special.

    It can be very ironic to play a game like Ultimate Alliance 2, which is in no way a Spidey game, and have his combat feel better than in his own damn games lol.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 10-14-2020 at 07:05 PM.

  9. #684
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    So you're saying that there wasn't a lot of people complaining,
    Well the marriage was substantially more popular than OMD so numerically, no. The point is that there were fans and others who hated the marriage passionately and were agitating for its removal and voiced that opinion at any forum they had.

    The serious answer to why the marriage is such a big deal and big topic is explained well by this video



    The Spider-Marriage was the first real case of comics events becoming national news, preceding the hoopla over The Death of Superman. It was the biggest comics event of the 80s in terms of public reach.

    In the history of Spider-Man, the marriage was the biggest event in the comics that attracted a wide audience. The second one was of course the unmasking in CIVIL WAR.

    And really, Wizard magazine? They weren't exactly a credible source even back then.
    Wizard magazine got interviews and sponsored writeups and profiles and so on. It was certainly the biggest comics magazine of its time.

    Like rain on your wedding day, right?
    It actually did rain on my wedding day. It was great and pretty.

    So now you're complaining about me complaining about you complain. Let's see how far we can go with this.
    Cap I can do this all day.jpg

    Right now though, you've openly admitted...
    Did no such thing.

    to disrupting topics
    Bringing up OMD and especially responding to someone asking a question about it on a thread called "Controversial Spider-Man Topics" isn't disrupting anything. It's actually on-topic.

    The worst comic ever written cannot become the most important Spider-Man comic of the last twenty years and win for itself a peachy keen fandom that accepts anything Marvel shovels at them. That's not gonna happen.

  10. #685
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Think someone once told me it's supposed to mean quality, or something like that, which can be ironic if so, considering the half assed Triple A games we can have lol.



    I mean, it's still weird that games avoid using him even after he came back, and Sam Raimi helped with his popularity, I can understand why PS4 Spidey specifically avoids this, since they're saving him up for later, but most other games take place in a continuity heavily influenced by the comics, and Norman is a popular Goblin, so you'd think they would use him to sell more toys or whatever.

    The weird thing is that, he'd be fitting somewhat in Web of Shadows, considering we even have NPCs using gliders, but no Goblins, and the flight boss is Vulture, and I think the game was out before Norman took over SHIELD, so he could be used as Green Goblin there.



    Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike, Web-Strike

    What a boring ass boss...

    Honestly though, here's another controversial opinion which I had forgotten to mention before, the combat of Spider-Man games is hardly anything above decent, the attacks may look cool and flashy, but the ways you can dodge attacks is very often poorly made which really hurts and makes the gameplay rather basic, but also poorly made, and the armor enemies have can be often poor placed making some enemies be hilarious jokes, or an annoying headache, and I'm not talking about obscure games nobody played, I mean games like Ultimate or Web of Shadows, at least PS4 Spidey is an actual improvement in some ways when compared to previous ones, and even that game's gameplay is nothing really special, since it has a lot of generic current Triple A shit, though it has potential, at least, with the costume powers and the webbing, but right now? Mostly generic, nothing special.
    I never played Web Of Shadows (well i played the PS2 version....i don't recommend it ), but i remember watching the aerial battles of the game and thinking "that looks kind of cool, but i feel that it would get boring after an hour or two" lol. And yeah the combat in Spider-Man games is nothing espcial, i thougth that Shattered Dimensions was fun thought.

    Also my unpopular opinion, i like the mission when you pursue the Beetle in the Ultimate Spider-Man a lot, i don't know why lol.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  11. #686
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I never played Web Of Shadows (well i played the PS2 version....i don't recommend it ), but i remember watching the aerial battles of the game and thinking "that looks kind of cool, but i feel that it would get boring after an hour or two" lol. And yeah the combat in Spider-Man games is nothing espcial, i thougth that Shattered Dimensions was fun thought.
    The aerial combat in WoS looking cool is part of the problem, like you can do Web strike with the red costume, time the punch button well and now Spidey is doing this damaging punch combo while magically managing to fly, but that's all you can really do in the air, either that or Black costume's tendril, which makes you get closer to do air combos, but with Web Strike being way better, since air attacks are poorly made, and how enemies take those hits are poorly made, why bother?

    So it looking cool distracts the player from realizing that it actually sucks, which happens a lot with more "Cinematic Gaming" kind of stuff, animations look great, but seeing a movie happen when you do those attacks does not mean good [b]gameplay[b], it just looks cool, and while looking cool is part of the point of Spidey, how about making something that looks cool and is well made too?

    At the very least on the ground the combat is a bit better, because blocking is more reliable, and you can dodge to make distance, so you have more options, but in the air, fucking Web Strike is your only option...

    Shattered Dimensions is actually one of the few games, maybe the only one, where I actually liked the combat, although admitedly, I probably played it like 5 years ago, so I don't remember much, but I remember liking 3 out of 4 Spideys, I don't think I cared much about Noir, and maybe Miguel was my favorite to play, but I really remember hating the upgrade system.

    Also my unpopular opinion, i like the mission when you pursue the Beetle in the Ultimate Spider-Man a lot, i don't know why lol.
    He might've been the least boring chase mission, since I think he throws obstacles in your way? Venom and Rhino were kinda meh, think maybe I liked to chase Electro with Venom though.

    Also can we have another Venom in a Spidey game? I loved that super jump, his combat being more long ranged was a cool idea, though, it was hilariously not balanced since the game rather clearly is made for close quarter combat (Even if it wasn't particularly well made to do that too lol).

    I don't mean Venom in particular, but, someone who plays very different from him, lacking one of the key stuff Spidey has (Which in Ultimate's case, web swinging), while having his own cool shit (Super Jump).

    Also how the fuck is Rhino someone Spidey can lost track of? A big ass robot that is destroying everything in the city? Come on now, that's just ridiculous lol.

  12. #687
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    The aerial combat in WoS looking cool is part of the problem, like you can do Web strike with the red costume, time the punch button well and now Spidey is doing this damaging punch combo while magically managing to fly, but that's all you can really do in the air, either that or Black costume's tendril, which makes you get closer to do air combos, but with Web Strike being way better, since air attacks are poorly made, and how enemies take those hits are poorly made, why bother?

    So it looking cool distracts the player from realizing that it actually sucks, which happens a lot with more "Cinematic Gaming" kind of stuff, animations look great, but seeing a movie happen when you do those attacks does not mean good [b]gameplay[b], it just looks cool, and while looking cool is part of the point of Spidey, how about making something that looks cool and is well made too?

    At the very least on the ground the combat is a bit better, because blocking is more reliable, and you can dodge to make distance, so you have more options, but in the air, fucking Web Strike is your only option...

    Shattered Dimensions is actually one of the few games, maybe the only one, where I actually liked the combat, although admitedly, I probably played it like 5 years ago, so I don't remember much, but I remember liking 3 out of 4 Spideys, I don't think I cared much about Noir, and maybe Miguel was my favorite to play, but I really remember hating the upgrade system.



    He might've been the least boring chase mission, since I think he throws obstacles in your way? Venom and Rhino were kinda meh, think maybe I liked to chase Electro with Venom though.

    Also can we have another Venom in a Spidey game? I loved that super jump, his combat being more long ranged was a cool idea, though, it was hilariously not balanced since the game rather clearly is made for close quarter combat (Even if it wasn't particularly well made to do that too lol).

    I don't mean Venom in particular, but, someone who plays very different from him, lacking one of the key stuff Spidey has (Which in Ultimate's case, web swinging), while having his own cool shit (Super Jump).

    Also how the fuck is Rhino someone Spidey can lost track of? A big ass robot that is destroying everything in the city? Come on now, that's just ridiculous lol.
    Noir was focussed in very basic stealth so the combat with him was clumsy AF, funny enougth i read the comic of Noir recently and my god Slott really didn't know the guy very well, same with Miguel. Also i think that my least favorite levels were with 2099, something the ligthing annoyed me, free falling was cool thougth.

    Venom was awesome in that game, thougth a part of me is still traumatized by the fact that i probably killed a child...and a bit amuse for the reference lol.

    Peter was just lazy that day, i lost Rhino once during that mission and i was able to immedialty find him after the game told that i had lost and asked me to try again
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  13. #688
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Noir was focussed in very basic stealth so the combat with him was clumsy AF, funny enougth i read the comic of Noir recently and my god Slott really didn't know the guy very well, same with Miguel. Also i think that my least favorite levels were with 2099, something the ligthing annoyed me, free falling was cool thougth.
    Slott wrote the game's story? Huh...

    I admitedly don't know much about Noir so I'm not sure where Slott screwed up, though Miguel is just "future Peter Parker", which is a really weird mistake to make since Miguel is serious with a more dry sense of humor if I remember correctly.

    I remember liking a move Miguel had, think it was chargeable and he could use it to hit a lot of enemies, maybe I used it as a panic button? It's been forever, I'd have to play again to confirm but I'm not sure where my copy is lol.

    Venom was awesome in that game, thougth a part of me is still traumatized by the fact that i probably killed a child...and a bit amuse for the reference lol.
    I heard horror stories about the balloon mini-games lol.

    Wonder if anyone will say their unpopular opinion is that he did like the balloon mini-game

    Peter was just lazy that day, i lost Rhino once during that mission and i was able to immedialty find him after the game told that i had lost and asked me to try again
    I guess if someone swats you into a wall like that, you'll feel less motivated to chase him lol.

  14. #689
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Slott wrote the game's story? Huh...

    I admitedly don't know much about Noir so I'm not sure where Slott screwed up, though Miguel is just "future Peter Parker", which is a really weird mistake to make since Miguel is serious with a more dry sense of humor if I remember correctly.

    I remember liking a move Miguel had, think it was chargeable and he could use it to hit a lot of enemies, maybe I used it as a panic button? It's been forever, I'd have to play again to confirm but I'm not sure where my copy is lol.



    I heard horror stories about the balloon mini-games lol.

    Wonder if anyone will say their unpopular opinion is that he did like the balloon mini-game



    I guess if someone swats you into a wall like that, you'll feel less motivated to chase him lol.
    Yes he did, in hindsight is like a prelude to Spider-Verse. And with many of his flaws, thougth the Spider-Men had some funny lines.

    He got wrong Noir's power and acted like he never could web-swing before the game lol. His Miguel is just as you say, maybe that's why PAD wrote the next one too.

    I always ignored those, so i'm not the man of the hour sadly

  15. #690
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Yes he did, in hindsight is like a prelude to Spider-Verse. And with many of his flaws, thougth the Spider-Men had some funny lines.
    At least there were no Morlums .

    He got wrong Noir's power and acted like he never could web-swing before the game lol. His Miguel is just as you say, maybe that's why PAD wrote the next one too.
    Yeah, Story-wise Edge might've been better, hear it even uses Peter David's original idea of evil CEO Peter that he planned for 2099, but cutting out the other Spiders is pretty dumb from a gameplay perspective, and gameplay is something SD had going on for it.

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