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  1. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Don't know if this is controversial, but I really dont care for Insomniac's portrayal of MJ. If they got rid of those stealth missions and made her closer to her 616 counterpart, the game would be a home run for me.
    She is nothing like 616 MJ, but the game keeps talking about her like she is. Her doing stealth missions in high feels is a perfect visual representation of this contradiction.

  2. #707
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    She is nothing like 616 MJ, but the game keeps talking about her like she is. Her doing stealth missions in high feels is a perfect visual representation of this contradiction.
    Wait, she was wearing heels? I think I remember her wearing boots with like, small wedges, but that's about it.

    I will agree with not loving PS4!MJ. She just feels like a more dull and less sassy version of 616 MJ, and the reporter job just takes up so much of her personality.

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Don't know if this is controversial, but I really dont care for Insomniac's portrayal of MJ. If they got rid of those stealth missions and made her closer to her 616 counterpart, the game would be a home run for me.
    If they made her closer to her 616 counterpart, she'd have no reason to be in the plot.

  4. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If they made her closer to her 616 counterpart, she'd have no reason to be in the plot.
    Well, they probably could have written her into the plot somehow considering her propensity for stumbling into stuff in the comics. That and her emotional connection to Peter.

  5. #710
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    The controversial opinion about Spider-Man PS4 is to express fondness for MJ and the stealth sections.

    Let me say that I like PS4 MJ a great deal. She has a sweetness to her that's becoming, and her dialogue and interactions with Peter are great. Do I want this to be the default and influential version going forward, no. But I like it as an adaptation. I prefer it over Fox Animated MJ and it's certainly a lot better than how Slott wrote MJ in his entire run, which gladly terminated around the time of the game's release.

    As for the stealth sections, I think her stealth scenes and Miles' scenes are important to express what it's like to be a normal person in a superhero worlds. I like the bit in Grand Central, where MJ basically sneaks around and siccs Spider-Man on guards, that part was cool as hell, and having a superhero on call to swoop in felt awesome. Not all the sequences were good mind you, but the Grand Central sequence as well as the Norman Osborn penthouse one is boss. In the case of Miles, him making a run for meds and dodging the Rhino was the scariest sequence of the entire game.

  6. #711
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    I'll be honest, I have no idea why people hate Slott's MJ and I say that as someone who is critical of much of what he did.

  7. #712
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Let me say that I like PS4 MJ a great deal. She has a sweetness to her that's becoming, and her dialogue and interactions with Peter are great. Do I want this to be the default and influential version going forward, no. But I like it as an adaptation. I prefer it over Fox Animated MJ and it's certainly a lot better than how Slott wrote MJ in his entire run, which gladly terminated around the time of the game's release.
    Animated MJ was more fun and more "MJ" to me.

    The best parts of the character for me were her relationship with Peter and none of the reporter stuff.
    As for the stealth sections, I think her stealth scenes and Miles' scenes are important to express what it's like to be a normal person in a superhero worlds. I like the bit in Grand Central, where MJ basically sneaks around and siccs Spider-Man on guards, that part was cool as hell, and having a superhero on call to swoop in felt awesome. Not all the sequences were good mind you, but the Grand Central sequence as well as the Norman Osborn penthouse one is boss. In the case of Miles, him making a run for meds and dodging the Rhino was the scariest sequence of the entire game.
    I can respect them on a conceptual level, but that doesn't always make them fun to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'll be honest, I have no idea why people hate Slott's MJ and I say that as someone who is critical of much of what he did.
    Her use in Superior was pretty bad. Parker Industries and beyond wasn't much better with her dynamic (or lack there of) with Peter.

  8. #713
    Amazing Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Well the marriage was substantially more popular than OMD so numerically, no. The point is that there were fans and others who hated the marriage passionately and were agitating for its removal and voiced that opinion at any forum they had.

    The serious answer to why the marriage is such a big deal and big topic is explained well by this video



    The Spider-Marriage was the first real case of comics events becoming national news, preceding the hoopla over The Death of Superman. It was the biggest comics event of the 80s in terms of public reach.

    In the history of Spider-Man, the marriage was the biggest event in the comics that attracted a wide audience. The second one was of course the unmasking in CIVIL WAR.



    Wizard magazine got interviews and sponsored writeups and profiles and so on. It was certainly the biggest comics magazine of its time.



    It actually did rain on my wedding day. It was great and pretty.



    Attachment 101437



    Did no such thing.



    Bringing up OMD and especially responding to someone asking a question about it on a thread called "Controversial Spider-Man Topics" isn't disrupting anything. It's actually on-topic.

    The worst comic ever written cannot become the most important Spider-Man comic of the last twenty years and win for itself a peachy keen fandom that accepts anything Marvel shovels at them. That's not gonna happen.

    Worst comic ever written? Now let's not get crazy here. Theres always Ultimatum and plenty of others I can site.

    So are you defending the act of spoiling everything Spidey for everyone else because your still mad about something that happened 13 years ago? Is that the angle you are taking here? That ruining any Spidey discussion with constant whine about OMD/BND is actually a noble cause?

    I mean if I was a comic writer, and I was given the reigns to do it, that would make me NOT want to retcon it. Like it would actually give me pause on undoing that event. Because then it feels like rewarding bad behavior.

  9. #714
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    Fox animated MJ wasn't perfect, but she was definitely closer in spirit to 616 MJ than PS4 MJ.

    As far as her not being relevant to the game, I would've sacrificed MJ being central to the plot, if it meant getting a more true to form MJ.

    I get that they were going for a metacontextual "reuniting" of Peter and MJ after OMD, but they could have had Peter and MJ already in a relationship or close friends at the start of the game. That way, MJ has a reason for being in the game as Peter's closest confidant without being the reporter girlfriend. And they could've given MJ one survival mission, a mission with her sneaking into Osborn's penthouse, or the Grand Central mission. Tweak it a bit and it still would've made sense.
    Last edited by Spider-Tiger; 10-15-2020 at 11:34 AM.

  10. #715
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'll be honest, I have no idea why people hate Slott's MJ and I say that as someone who is critical of much of what he did.
    Is mostly because of her actions on Superior, how she didn't realize that something was wrong with Peter (except for Carlie everyone IQ pretty much drop in that book) and how she essentially victim blamed Peter for the whole mess with Otto (althougth that probably was Gage) and how hypocritical she was in her criticism againts Peter in vol 4. Before that, she was ok, nothing great but nothing to get mad about it, she even helped him to save the day once.
    Last edited by TheCape; 10-15-2020 at 11:50 AM.
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  11. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Mysterio has a daughter. She was even Mysterio in the USM cartoon.
    Isn't the daughter a robot or whatever?

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    What about Ezekiel or Shocker? I do not recall female versions of them
    A female Ezekiel would be weird, since, y'know, he's not a costumed villain (And his "villainy" is a bit more complicated than the usual), he's his own guy lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If they made her closer to her 616 counterpart, she'd have no reason to be in the plot.
    It's honestly a problem I have with PS4 Spidey's story, while this is the game where Peter's personal life is very developed, everything we see from his personal life is directly connected with Spider-Man.

    FEAST? Run by Martin. MJ? She's a reporter. His job with Otto? Don't even have to explain lol.

    They changed her just to have her directly connected with the plot, and that kinda sucks, and I don't have a problem with the reporter part per see, just that they changed specifically to be connected with the plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The controversial opinion about Spider-Man PS4 is to express fondness for MJ and the stealth sections.
    My biggest problem with the stealth sections are that they follow the usual Triple A problem of having stealth sections in a game that is mostly another genre, and that the stealth is as basic as Metal Gear Solid 1's, a game from over 20 years ago.

    Honestly, the most fun I had with the stealth sections was not using that beep device, the stun gun, and Miles' hacking app, unless it was mandatory, 'cause by not using them I had to try to work harder to trick the guards, and it made some situations pretty intense.

    Let me say that I like PS4 MJ a great deal. She has a sweetness to her that's becoming, and her dialogue and interactions with Peter are great. Do I want this to be the default and influential version going forward, no. But I like it as an adaptation. I prefer it over Fox Animated MJ and it's certainly a lot better than how Slott wrote MJ in his entire run, which gladly terminated around the time of the game's release.
    To be fair, it doesn't take much to be better than Slott's MJ, she could be nasty, being a bitch to Peter in a way that made her not any better than other love interests who did the same.

    As for the stealth sections, I think her stealth scenes and Miles' scenes are important to express what it's like to be a normal person in a superhero worlds. I like the bit in Grand Central, where MJ basically sneaks around and siccs Spider-Man on guards, that part was cool as hell, and having a superhero on call to swoop in felt awesome. Not all the sequences were good mind you, but the Grand Central sequence as well as the Norman Osborn penthouse one is boss. In the case of Miles, him making a run for meds and dodging the Rhino was the scariest sequence of the entire game.
    While I like the tension from a story perspective, Rhino's section is probably the most simple and straight forward stealth section, so for me it's kinda meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'll be honest, I have no idea why people hate Slott's MJ and I say that as someone who is critical of much of what he did.
    She could be too much of a bitch, there's one moment in PI era where she says that she's glad she gave up on Peter 'cause she was sick of dealing with Spidey's shit, pretty much saying Tony is better than Peter, plus when she left in Superior, she talked in a way that was basically "I'm not saying it's Peter's fault for the shit that happens in his life, but it's his fault".

    When Slott was doing his "Plot over character" writing style that allowed MJ to not be a piece of shit, she could be decent, but that's the problem, she could be fine in one moment, a bitch in the next, made her look like bipolar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Fox animated MJ wasn't perfect, but she was definitely closer in spirit to 616 MJ than PS4 MJ.

    As far as her not being relevant to the game, I would've sacrificed MJ being central to the plot, if it meant getting a more true to form MJ.

    I get that they were going for a metacontextual "reuniting" of Peter and MJ after OMD, but they could have had Peter and MJ already in a relationship or close friends at the start of the game. That way, MJ has a reason for being in the game as Peter's closest confidant without being the reporter girlfriend. And they could've given MJ one survival mission, a mission with her sneaking into Osborn's penthouse, or the Grand Central mission. Tweak it a bit and it still would've made sense.
    I honestly only see Grand Central mission as one a non-reporter MJ would get involved in, a "wrong place at the wrong time" situation. I don't see the Norman's penthouse one working that well since she had to actively invade the place, and MJ doesn't tend to do that kind of thing, best way I can imagine is if she was already there for some reason, and decided to use the situation to learn about Harry, and even then it'd still be weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Is mostly because of her actions on Superior, how she didn't realize that something was wrong with Peter (except for Carlie everyone IQ pretty much drop in that book) and how she essentially victim blamed Peter for the whole mess with Otto (althougth that probably was Gage) and how hypocritical she was in her criticism againts Peter in vol 4. Before that, she was ok, nothing great but nothing to get mad about it, she even helped him to save the day once.
    Honestly, Carlie dropped IQ points too, 'cause Peter quite clearly told her what was going on and she took forever to connect the dots lol.

    Superior would look less dumb if Peter's supporting cast wasn't so scarily competent at sniffing out impostors so consistently, there's that moment in Last Hunt where it took MJ 1 or 2 pages to tell that Spider-Man who was beating people up wasn't Peter, then we have Superior where, she never realizes, yeah...
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 10-15-2020 at 11:56 AM.

  12. #717
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Worst comic ever written? Now let's not get crazy here. Theres always Ultimatum and plenty of others I can site.
    Other bad stories like Ultimatum and others didn't go on to become defining stories for an entire new long-term status-quo.

    So are you defending the act of spoiling everything Spidey for everyone else because your still mad about something that happened 13 years ago?
    I am saying that if people feel bad about OMD and continue to feel bad about it, they should express it. That's all. They have a right to express that regardless of how other posters feel.

    A) Because it's a real feeling.
    B) It's a legit feeling.
    C) It's a direct consequence to the impact of OMD on the Spider-Man continuity.

    That ruining any Spidey discussion with constant whine about OMD/BND is actually a noble cause?
    Describing outrage as an act of protest does not correlate to it being a noble cause. That's the meaning some have taken here.

    Again if a bad story happens and it's given platform by editors to have an influence, fans have a right to complain about it, for as long as they wish.

    X-Men fans complained about the push given to Inhumans and the bad stories they experienced since House of M and they never got over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Fox animated MJ wasn't perfect, but she was definitely closer in spirit to 616 MJ than PS4 MJ.
    No she wasn't. She never was.

    As far as her not being relevant to the game, I would've sacrificed MJ being central to the plot, if it meant getting a more true to form MJ.
    This is "perfection being the enemy of good" thinking.

  13. #718
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Isn't the daughter a robot or whatever?



    A female Ezekiel would be weird, since, y'know, he's not a costumed villain (And his "villainy" is a bit more complicated than the usual), he's his own guy lol.



    It's honestly a problem I have with PS4 Spidey's story, while this is the game where Peter's personal life is very developed, everything we see from his personal life is directly connected with Spider-Man.

    FEAST? Run by Martin. MJ? She's a reporter. His job with Otto? Don't even have to explain lol.

    They changed her just to have her directly connected with the plot, and that kinda sucks, and I don't have a problem with the reporter part per see, just that they changed specifically to be connected with the plot.



    My biggest problem with the stealth sections are that they follow the usual Triple A problem of having stealth sections in a game that is mostly another genre, and that the stealth is as basic as Metal Gear Solid 1's, a game from over 20 years ago.

    Honestly, the most fun I had with the stealth sections was not using that beep device, the stun gun, and Miles' hacking app, unless it was mandatory, 'cause by not using them I had to try to work harder to trick the guards, and it made some situations pretty intense.



    To be fair, it doesn't take much to be better than Slott's MJ, she could be nasty, being a bitch to Peter in a way that made her not any better than other love interests who did the same.



    While I like the tension from a story perspective, Rhino's section is probably the most simple and straight forward stealth section, so for me it's kinda meh.



    She could be too much of a bitch, there's one moment in PI era where she says that she's glad she gave up on Peter 'cause she was sick of dealing with Spidey's shit, pretty much saying Tony is better than Peter, plus when she left in Superior, she talked in a way that was basically "I'm not saying it's Peter's fault for the shit that happens in his life, but it's his fault".

    When Slott was doing his "Plot over character" writing style that allowed MJ to not be a piece of shit, she could be decent, but that's the problem, she could be fine in one moment, a bitch in the next, made her look like bipolar.



    I honestly only see Grand Central mission as one a non-reporter MJ would get involved in, a "wrong place at the wrong time" situation. I don't see the Norman's penthouse one working that well since she had to actively invade the place, and MJ doesn't tend to do that kind of thing, best way I can imagine is if she was already there for some reason, and decided to use the situation to learn about Harry, and even then it'd still be weird.



    Honestly, Carlie dropped IQ points too, 'cause Peter quite clearly told her what was going on and she took forever to connect the dots lol.

    Superior would look less dumb if Peter's supporting cast wasn't so scarily competent at sniffing out impostors so consistently, there's that moment in Last Hunt where it took MJ 1 or 2 pages to tell that Spider-Man who was beating people up wasn't Peter, then we have Superior where, she never realizes, yeah...
    The worst part is that Otto wasn't even making a great effort to hide it, he was talking like a 60s comic book villain most of the time, Yost Superior wasn't great either, but at least he put an effort, useless as it was. Honestly, Superior is the kind of story arc that can't last more that one arc without making everyone look bad or having a lot of contrivances in order to keep that dtatus quo.
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  14. #719
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Isn't the daughter a robot or whatever?
    She seemed flesh and blood in the Scarlet Spider book.
    It's honestly a problem I have with PS4 Spidey's story, while this is the game where Peter's personal life is very developed, everything we see from his personal life is directly connected with Spider-Man.

    FEAST? Run by Martin. MJ? She's a reporter. His job with Otto? Don't even have to explain lol.

    They changed her just to have her directly connected with the plot, and that kinda sucks, and I don't have a problem with the reporter part per see, just that they changed specifically to be connected with the plot.
    They were going for a very overt take on Peter and Spider-Man's lives intersecting.

    I guess I'd be fine with her being a reporter if I felt like she still had that vivaciousness and sassiness even as a reporter but that's not really how she came across in the game to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    The worst part is that Otto wasn't even making a great effort to hide it, he was talking like a 60s comic book villain most of the time, Yost Superior wasn't great either, but at least he put an effort, useless as it was. Honestly, Superior is the kind of story arc that can't last more that one arc without making everyone look bad or having a lot of contrivances in order to keep that dtatus quo.
    It worked well enough as a five-episode arc in the current Spider-Man cartoon, even if it retained some of the flaws of the storyline.

    But I think condensing it down helped a lot.

  15. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    idey's story, while this is the game where Peter's personal life is very developed, everything we see from his personal life is directly connected with Spider-Man.

    FEAST? Run by Martin. MJ? She's a reporter. His job with Otto? Don't even have to explain lol.

    They changed her just to have her directly connected with the plot, and that kinda sucks, and I don't have a problem with the reporter part per see, just that they changed specifically to be connected with the plot.
    That's an unfortunate consequence of modern storytelling where you don't want to feel like you "wasted" your time on anything. It's why despite all the talks about Spidey's supporting cast being great, people only laud the Daily Bugle cast and Mary Jane, the women he has sex with which I find very sad.

    If it doesn't add anything to Spider-Man, it's seen as useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Other bad stories like Ultimatum and others didn't go on to become defining stories for an entire new long-term status-quo.
    You do realize that Ultimatum shifted Ultimate Marvel as a whole from "modern retelling of Marvel" to full-on alternate history, right? It had a greater impact than OMD by far.

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