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  1. #766
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It’s because they like pairing him with people that he’s typically weaker than so they like using that as a crutch.

    Him skillfully defeating enemies would “undermine” his inexperienced Spider-Man persona.
    Well, canonically I think Bendis said he is supposed to be slightly weaker in terms of overall strength than Peter is so I assume that's why he has his other abilities to compensate for, but I think more to the fault is just Bendis' staging of fights.

  2. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, canonically I think Bendis said he is supposed to be slightly weaker in terms of overall strength than Peter is so I assume that's why he has his other abilities to compensate for, but I think more to the fault is just Bendis' staging of fights.
    I honestly wasn’t sure if I should’ve been sarcastic or not in my statement.

  3. #768
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Miles' Venom Blast is so overpowered.

    Need to take down a towering crime boss who not even your predecessor could seemingly defeat in a straight up fight? Venom Blast!
    Which one was that?

    Bendis comparing it to Thor's hammer didn't really work because it's an attack, not a physical weapon, and if Thor's hammer was the equivalent of the Venom Blast he probably would end most fights with a single throw of Mjolnir.
    Not to mention that even back when Thor was way stronger, Mjolnir wasn't an instant win button, it just gave Thor more powers to increase his flexibility, so technically Mjolnir was closer to being like web shooters, since web shooters increase Spidey's flexibility

    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    In all fairness. This was mostly a Bendis thing and I don't think it's really controversial. Most people agree that the Venom Blast thing to really old with time. At least recently I can't remember an instance of this. During Saladin Ahmed's run most stuff that Miles fought simply couldn't be Venom Blasted away. And even in his other appearances in stuff like Venom, while the Venom Blast was useful, it didn't end the fight.
    I think in Venom when Miles was used early on to deal with that giant symbiote, Knull specifically said that light hurts, and I think Venom Blast was said to be like light? If so, for once they bothered to explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I've been enjoying Ahmed's run but there's still been one or two instances of him just one-shotting bad guys with it. Actually, I think there was even a joke with Miles being so tired of a straight up fight that he just instantly went to the Venom Blast .
    I mean, if Venom Blast is still strong in Ahmed's run, then the battle against Ultimate Green Goblin is ironic, because under Bendis it made GG into Miles' little bitch, but under Ahmed, in #14 he had to use it a lot against Norman and he almost fainted to manage to put Norman down, and in #15 he kept trying to use it and it didn't slow down Ultimate Norman at all, granted he didn't manage to use as much as in the last battle, but still, looks way weaker.

    But honestly, Venom Blast is just peak laziness, it either works super well or it doesn't, it'd need to straight up be changed in how it works to not be either completely broken or completely useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, canonically I think Bendis said he is supposed to be slightly weaker in terms of overall strength than Peter is so I assume that's why he has his other abilities to compensate for, but I think more to the fault is just Bendis' staging of fights.
    Miles is also said to have a slightly weaker spider-sense if I'm not wrong.

    Of course, in practice there's no difference, spider-sense works the same, inconsistency and all, and he still is really fucking strong, so Miles actually is the same as Peter when it comes to the powers they share, which makes him have the stronger power set of the two since invisibility and Venom Blast are pretty good.

  4. #769
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I think in Venom when Miles was used early on to deal with that giant symbiote, Knull specifically said that light hurts, and I think Venom Blast was said to be like light? If so, for once they bothered to explain.
    Yeah, basically. Also that Symbiote in particular was weak to electricity because of its fight with Thor. But even then, though Miles managed to use the Venom Blast to get some good shots and save Eddie more than a few times, it didn't one-hit KO the giant Symbiote, nor did it stop the fight or anything. So I didn't think it was badly used.

  5. #770
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Yeah, basically. Also that Symbiote in particular was weak to electricity because of its fight with Thor.
    I remember Knull only said it was Thor's light that hurt him, so I don't think it was electricity, specially since he talked like it was the usual light that annoyed him, but maybe he doesn't know the difference between thunder and light, which would be weird 'cause, again, he talks about Thor's light like it was the usual light that annoyed him.

    But even then, though Miles managed to use the Venom Blast to get some good shots and save Eddie more than a few times, it didn't one-hit KO the giant Symbiote, nor did it stop the fight or anything. So I didn't think it was badly used.
    Yeah, think Venom Blast should be more like that, just remove its one hit KO power (Which in what I briefly checked in Ahmed's run, seems to be the case, at least against Ultimate Green Goblin), but make it hurt a lot, enough for him to bother using it, but not enough to the point that punching someone isn't worth to bother over Venom Blast.

  6. #771
    A Reckoning is Nigh Gwen Parker's Avatar
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    The Clone Stories have all been good.
    Original Clone Saga- good.
    Clone Saga- Great.
    Clone Conspiracy- Really good.

  7. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Miles' Venom Blast is so overpowered.

    Need to take down a towering crime boss who not even your predecessor could seemingly defeat in a straight up fight? Venom Blast!

    Need to take down a demonic hellspawn who took down an entire Avengers team? Venom Blast!

    Need to take out an entire room of goons and bad guys because the story needs to end in time for Secret Wars? Super Venom Blast!

    Need to take down two giant robots in one attack? V-V-V-V-Venom Blast!!!!

    Bendis comparing it to Thor's hammer didn't really work because it's an attack, not a physical weapon, and if Thor's hammer was the equivalent of the Venom Blast he probably would end most fights with a single throw of Mjolnir.
    This was mostly a Bendis problem and not a Miles one. But I do think this is a good lead into another controversial opinion...

    Not all of the initial backlash to Miles can be attributed to racism, and Marvel/Bendis are partly culpable in how reactionary it got.

    There were obviously people who were hostile to Miles purely due to racism and irrational fears about diversity, but there were also other factors that contributed to the backlash:

    1. A critically-acclaimed version of Peter that many fans grew up with was killed off last-minute to make way for a new character. This would have pissed people off even if the new Spider-Man was another white guy. This also added some fuel to the conspiracy that Miles was here to replace Peter.

    2. Bendis' Miles is honestly not that good or original compared to what came after him, which would obviously anger those who loved Ultimate Peter even more.

    3. Due to a lack of a clear vision with the original Miles, Bendis resorted to the 'bigger and badder' trope to make Miles look cool. The bigger-and-badder trope is when you make a legacy character more OP than the original to make the character look cooler (again, this normally pisses people off even when race isn't a factor).

    4. Bendis apparently did consider killing off 616 Peter during Secret Wars when he brought Miles into 616. Again, adding fuel to the conspiracy theories.

    5. In spite of the fact that Ultimate Miles was a token character and kinda a safe choice for Marvel (I mean, putting out a black Spider-Man that is similar to Peter isn't exactly a huge risk...see Kamala Khan if you want to see Marvel take an actual big risk), a lot of sensationalist internet outlets insisted that all objections to Miles was solely due to racism and entitlement.

    Taking all that into account, it's not a surprise that people were more put off by Miles than they are now. Probably the biggest reason why many naysayers from 2011 warmed up to him is because both Miles and Peter are written/treated better than they were 10 years ago.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-20-2020 at 08:31 AM.

  8. #773
    Amazing Member Dzika_Sowa's Avatar
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    Some of my thoughts:

    Tobey McGuire wasn't such a good Spider-man after all. He lacked the charisma in both the costume and the role of Peter Parker.

    Andrew Garfield is the best cinematic Peter Parker and Spider-Man, and had he been younger, I'd love to see him instead of Holland in the MCU universe.

    Miles Morales is a bit boring. I enjoyed his role in Into the Spiderverse, but otherwise, he's nothing special.

    Maximum Carnage is a cool story that perfectly captures the years in which it was created.

    Peter and MJ remarrying is pointless. while OMD should be reversed, there is no need to remarry them.

    Early spider-Totem stuff is one of the most interesting things in the spider universe. It doesn't really take anything from Spider-Man's origin, but adds optional things that you can believe or not.

  9. #774
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I will say that, while I think things worked out the best with Miles, I feel like Bendis should've let Ultimate Peter grow up if he was starting to run out of ideas for him instead of just killing him off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Which one was that?
    Into the Spider-Verse.

  10. #775
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    Early spider-Totem stuff is one of the most interesting things in the spider universe. It doesn't really take anything from Spider-Man's origin, but adds optional things that you can believe or not.
    This is one controversial view you made that I agree with.

  11. #776
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    1. A critically-acclaimed version of Peter that many fans grew up with was killed off last-minute to make way for a new character. This would have pissed people off even if the new Spider-Man was another white guy. This also added some fuel to the conspiracy that Miles was here to replace Peter.
    Wouldn't really say he was killed last minute, if he was killed in Ultimatum like everyone else, then sure, that would be the case, but Peter was fighting for plenty of issues and then he died because of the injuries in those fights.

    What did happen last minute was Miles showing up, he just suddenly shows up in the fallout issues lol.

    2. Bendis' Miles is honestly not that good or original compared to what came after him, which would obviously anger those who loved Ultimate Peter even more.
    His origin story was specially bad, what he says and what we see aren't connected, he says that he felt like a coward for not saving Peter, but a few pages before that we see Miles actually rushing into battle to try to save Peter as soon as he hears that Spidey got shot, but he was too late, like motherfucker what? Those contradictions happen in the same issue, how did Bendis fuck up that bad?

    Aaron was also pretty bad, story kinda plays out like he's seducing Miles with the dark side, or at least Aaron thinks this is the case, but he's just being an asshole making Miles suffer, so it's no surprise Miles turns against him, and then he dies saying Miles is not any better than him? Just a douchebag lol.

    4. Bendis apparently did consider killing off 616 Peter during Secret Wars when he brought Miles into 616. Again, adding fuel to the conspiracy theories.
    Like Bendis would have any say in this matter even if he planned that, Hickman was the one writing 2015's Secret Wars, and Slott was the one writing ASM, Bendis was just writing a tie-in that was so poorly researched that the "616" and "Ultimate" from it were both made into alternate universes, that's not even getting into how higher ups would also say no, so yeah, if Bendis wanted to kill another Spider-Man to make his pet shine, there's basically nothing he could do lol.

    Although, if he did want to kill 616, that'd be shitty, even if he was powerless to do so, it's shitty he considered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzika_Sowa View Post
    Early spider-Totem stuff is one of the most interesting things in the spider universe. It doesn't really take anything from Spider-Man's origin, but adds optional things that you can believe or not.
    Outside of the implication it may have been magic, biggest problem I have with Totem shit is this implication that Peter may have been chosen to get those powers, while it wouldn't be a retcon even if it was confirmed, more like a revision, this idea that it wasn't an accident changes the spirit of the original, going from a freak accident that could have happened to anyone, to "nah, the spider chose Peter" and that's too lame for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Into the Spider-Verse.
    Huh, somehow forgot he used Venom Blast to defeat Fisk lol.

    I checked it out here, and funnily enough, it didn't seem to actually hurt Fisk, only knocked him back, which then Miles used webs to throw his body to press a button, so this is different from the usual "instant win button", though it did lead to the same results.

  12. #777
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    There are no weak Spider-Man stories.

  13. #778
    Spectacular Member BooCoo's Avatar
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    I want to see Peter get all his spider upgrades back. They disappeared for no reason.
    Professional KoOk, available nine days a week.

  14. #779
    Fantastic Member Spidey_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooCoo View Post
    I want to see Peter get all his spider upgrades back. They disappeared for no reason.
    They all went to Kaine seemingly because the Other found Peter to be unworthy of those powers lol.

  15. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Wouldn't really say he was killed last minute, if he was killed in Ultimatum like everyone else, then sure, that would be the case, but Peter was fighting for plenty of issues and then he died because of the injuries in those fights.

    What did happen last minute was Miles showing up, he just suddenly shows up in the fallout issues lol.
    What I meant is that there was no lead-up to Peter's death. If anything, the Ultimate comics were initially leading up to the opposite. They referenced multiple times prior to Peter's last story arc that their version of Peter would grow up to be the greatest hero in Earth-1610.

    The decision to kill him off and bring in Miles was made in response to the Donald Glover controversy with Sony.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-20-2020 at 03:32 PM.

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