Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Alan2099]

I don't think that those making the claim forget so much as they don't really believe in the concept to begin with. Often times it feels like the everyman complaint is made by those that are looking for a way to give a moral justification to undo the changes they dislike. But those claiming for him to be returned to his everyman origins seem to be the first to either defend or implement changes that arguably take the character away from said roots.

Peter being married to a gorgeous woman ruins his everyman status and ages him too much, but he can become a Doctor and own his own company, which doesn't age him or take away from his everyman status qt all.

Peter being a teacher is unreasonable and makes things too difficult to be Spider-Man and too unnatural, but having a job that he can come and go at his leisure, take items developed by his coworkers for his own benefit, work on super science projects involving things like time travel, and be paid cash funds that solve his money woes somehow doesn't.

I think it's less of a concern for ruining his everyman appeal and more trying to find someway to find a way to give a greater morality for position positions, since it's harder to justify a personal dislike of something and far easier to argue that the change or status quo is somehow harmful or detrimental to the character and his mythos.

Honestly, I don't like any of that stuff you were talking about. I think Peter is at his BEST when he's barely able to make rent and trying to balance his job, his personal life, and his superhero career and never quite managing to perfectly do it.

[Pako]

Peter being married to a gorgeous woman ruins his everyman status and ages him too much, but he can become a Doctor and own his own company, which doesn't age him or take away from his everyman status qt all.

To be fair..
You don't actually believe being married to a famous supermodel / actress that fills the status of the perfect wife (+Successful entrepreneur!) happens just as often as getting a doctorate or owning a company (!= highly successful company) do you ?

[Kevinroc]

To be fair..
You don't actually believe being married to a famous supermodel / actress that fills the status of the perfect wife happens just as often as getting a doctorate or owning a company (!= highly successful company) do you ?

About as "believable" as being in a serious relationship with a famous and respected retired police captain's beautiful daughter.

Or in a relationship with someone who is essentially Catwoman.

(That Peter ends up in relationships with beautiful women is definitely a part of the "wish fulfillment" nature of it all. And it's been a thing since before John Romita took over art duties. Betty was also supposed to be pretty but Ditko wasn't really an artist who could depict pretty people. Edit: And Liz Allan, who was supposed to be the "prettiest girl in school" was also interested in Peter during the Ditko days.)

[Pako]

I'm kinda thinking there's literally less than fifty supermodels in the world; so... (even less than the number of superheros in the MU? )

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

To be fair..
You don't actually believe being married to a famous supermodel / actress that fills the status of the perfect wife (+Successful entrepreneur!) happens just as often as getting a doctorate or owning a company (!= highly successful company) do you ?

Yup.

But keep in mind, lot's of women are models and actresses. It doesn't mean that they are successful. MJ was only a supermodel for a brief story, which ended with both her and Peter being peniless, cast out into the street on Christmas Eve, forced to live with Aunt May for several months, and continued to scrape by financially for years. When MJ was with Peter, she was never a "successful entrepreneur." She was just living day by day, same as Peter. And she was never depicted as being perfect.

Describing Peter's job at Horizon as convenient doesn't come even close to how unrealistic it was. And being handed the reigns of a major company isn't exactly fitting in with the notion of him being a grounded everyman. If him being married to a "supermodel" makes him hard to relate to, then being given the reigns of his own private company makes him just as hard to relate to. Very few people starting out with their own company reach the same heights Peter has reached almost overnight.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

I'm kinda thinking there's literally less than fifty supermodels in the world; so... (even less than the number of superheros in the MU? )

And MJ hasn't been one of those for a long, long time. And when she was, it was due to the machinations of an obsessed fan, who essentially ruined her career after she rejected him. After that, she could only get work on a soap opera, which eventually saw her screen time get cut, causing her a lot of frustration.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

About as "believable" as being in a serious relationship with a famous and respected retired police captain's beautiful daughter.

Or in a relationship with someone who is essentially Catwoman.

(That Peter ends up in relationships with beautiful women is definitely a part of the "wish fulfillment" nature of it all. And it's been a thing since before John Romita took over art duties. Betty was also supposed to be pretty but Ditko wasn't really an artist who could depict pretty people. Edit: And Liz Allan, who was supposed to be the "prettiest girl in school" was also interested in Peter during the Ditko days.)

And don't forget Gwen, who was so pretty every guy in college wanted her, and who was actually ticked off that Peter didn't actually try to hit on her when they first met.

[Kevinroc]

And don't forget Gwen, who was so pretty every guy in college wanted her, and who was actually ticked off that Peter didn't actually try to hit on her when they first met.

I did mention Gwen. Even before I edited because I forgot about Liz Allan, I remembered Gwen. The respected retired police captain's beautiful daughter is Gwen.

I'm kinda thinking there's literally less than fifty supermodels in the world; so... (even less than the number of superheros in the MU? )

It's wish-fulfillment. It absolutely is. It's no more or less ridiculous than any of the other beautiful women Peter has been in a relationship with. It's just adapting up the "most beautiful girl in school" thing that Liz and Gwen had going for them.

(People make a far bigger deal of this than it actually is.)

[Pako]

And MJ hasn't been one of those for a long, long time. And when she was, it was due to the machinations of an obsessed fan, who essentially ruined her career after she rejected him. After that, she could only get work on a soap opera, which eventually saw her screen time get cut, causing her a lot of frustration.

In the same vein, Otto kinda threw the company and the doctorate on Peter, and its literally biting him in the ass at the moment.

It's wish-fulfillment. It absolutely is. It's no more or less ridiculous than any of the other beautiful women Peter has been in a relationship with. It's just adapting up the "most beautiful girl in school" thing that Liz and Gwen had going for them.

(People make a far bigger deal of this than it actually is.)

Now is it a controversial opinion to pair Peter up with less than the most beautiful women?

[Kevinroc]

Now is it a controversial opinion to pair Peter up with less than the most beautiful women?

There are some Deb Whitman fans on this board. (Deb is cute.)

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

Now is it a controversial opinion to pair Peter up with less than the most beautiful women?

It's kind of a moot point, as every girl Peter is with is depicted as being incredibly beautiful.

Carlie and Deb wearing glasses and tying their hair in ponytails really doesn't make artists depict them any less attractively than characters like Gwen, Felicia and MJ.

[Agent Z]

Honestly, I don't like any of that stuff you were talking about. I think Peter is at his BEST when he's barely able to make rent and trying to balance his job, his personal life, and his superhero career and never quite managing to perfectly do it.

No offense, but Joe Quesada thought the same thing and, well, look what happened......

[Aruran.]

Honestly, I don't like any of that stuff you were talking about. I think Peter is at his BEST when he's barely able to make rent and trying to balance his job, his personal life, and his superhero career and never quite managing to perfectly do it.

Which is why I don't think Peter works as a everyman when he's an adult. You acknowledge that when he's an adult, he's been Spider-Man for a couple of years at that point, so therefore he should've got the hang of it. When he first lived on his own, of course theres gonna be difficulties that he faces, but when ages from that, how exactly can he still have the same problems affecting him? Like his rent, if he can't afford it, he should move to one he can afford, and considering he doesn't spend a lot of time at his home and is usually out, the quality shouldn't really matter to him.

[TrillxRegime]

Cool thread. I had fun reading through all of your opinions.

1. Ultimate Spider-Man through Ultimatum were some of the best Spider-Man stories I've ever read. Got bored when they started recreating "Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends."

2. After sitting and reading Superior Spider-Man from start to finish I really enjoyed it. Goblin Nation was one of the coolest concepts, but I would've liked it if it played out similar to TDKR. (Not Peter retiring, just him being defeated and having to fight back without the Otto stuff.)

3. Amazing Spider-Man 2 is my favorite Spider-Man film and one of my top 10 CBM. I enjoyed it more than DOFP.

4. 1610 Norman is better than 616 Norman in my opinion. He's more unhinged and chaotic like the Joker, which is how I think the Green Goblin should be. Not a complete clone of the Joker just the unpredictability of what he'll do next.

5. Bendis and Slott are my two favorite Spider-Man writers. I generally enjoy their stories more.

6. I like the Ultimate version of his origin the most. I like the idea of the Marvel Universe having an "arms race" trying to recreate the Super Soldier Serum rather than a random science experiment.

7. If Spectacular Spider-Man had the art of Young Justice it would have been perfect to me. The stories and characterization were already excellent.

8. Venom and Carnage have rarely been given a good story, but there is so much potential there.

9. Neil Patrick Harris is my favorite Spider-Man voice actor.

[Randumbz]

There are some Deb Whitman fans on this board. (Deb is cute.)

I forgot that she even existed.