Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Alex_Of_X]

I, for one, liked RYV Peter! He was cool! At least under Conway\Stegman, I didn't read further.

Teacher-Pete is imho a very good gig for him to have. He doesn't have to teacher in every issue--even JMS barely had him in school after like the first two arcs.

It's certainly easier for a story to wiggle out of having Peter be in school, rather than him having a kid. Unless we got we age up the kid superboy style, but that's neither here, nor there

[Kevinroc]

He was kind of boring in RYV. Most of his personality was just that of an exasperated parent type cliche.

RYV Peter was far more interesting than anything we've seen out of 616 Peter in the last 15 years.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It is if we are to gauge how accepted a good Norman is by the mainstream.

I don't know if that's a good indication, though. NWH was an event film and is primarily liked as an event film, so people gave a pass to a lot of other things they would otherwise not be okay with. Norman turned "good" at the end but audiences going out of it didn't talk about that much, and are not asking for Norman to be brought back as a hero or whatever. Talk I heard after NWH was how badass/evil the Goblin was in the movie, and whether or not Peter will get his own MCU Norman. Basically, I think it's a leap to go from "No one complained about Norman turning good in the last scene of NWH" to "audiences accept/want Norman as a good guy."

I forgot to mention this about Spencer, but he set up Peter and MJ as still not trusting Norman. That implies Norman turning "good" was a red herring in his mind, and then Wells comes along and unironically plays him as good.

We don't know the context of him getting kicked out of private school and he doesn't ask Peter for science factoids. He does use one Peter tells him (unprompted) to hit on MJ after initially dismissing it as something no one would be interested in.

Norman says he flunked.

That scene is one of the ways Raimi establishes that Harry isn't as smart as Peter.

Norman's entire approval of Peter over Harry and Harry's jealousy of that entirely to do with Harry not being that good at science. If Harry is actually as smart as Peter, that's a major issue with those movies and nothing in the Peter/Harry/Norman dynamic makes sense.

[Refrax5]

RYV Peter was far more interesting than anything we've seen out of 616 Peter in the last 15 years.

It's just different shades of boring.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

He was kind of boring in RYV. Most of his personality was just that of an exasperated parent type cliche.

I will grant that I don't think there is a truly great take on Dad Peter yet, but I want to point out:

1. The same people who wrote BND wrote RYV, including Slott. Of course they're not going to do a phenomenal job with it. The talent isn't there.

2. RYV is still better than anything done with Peter in BND/Slott/Wells' run. Like another user said, Childfree Peter can be just as boring under hack writers.

The point is that Dad Peter doesn't have to be boring.

[Matt Rat]

1. The same people who wrote BND wrote RYV

Slott only wrote five issues of Renew Your Vows, and I thought he did a pretty good job with the family dynamic, I could be wrong, but I don't think he is married or has children.

The other writers for RYV were Gerry Conway, who is a father and family man a few times over and who's Spider-Man legacy speaks for itself, Gerry's artist Ryan Stegman, who had to fill in for Gerry when he quit, and Jodie Houser, who never wrote BND era stuff and didn't last long at Marvel, ultimately becoming best known for writing Doctor Who comics for Titan publishing during the Jodie Whittaker era (and has since been succeeded by Dan Slott)

[Agent Z]

I don't know if that's a good indication, though. NWH was an event film and is primarily liked as an event film, so people gave a pass to a lot of other things they would otherwise not be okay with. Norman turned "good" at the end but audiences going out of it didn't talk about that much, and are not asking for Norman to be brought back as a hero or whatever. Talk I heard after NWH was how badass/evil the Goblin was in the movie, and whether or not Peter will get his own MCU Norman. Basically, I think it's a leap to go from "No one complained about Norman turning good in the last scene of NWH" to "audiences accept/want Norman as a good guy."

I've seen this movie get a lot of praise for pushing to rehabilitate the villains, something most superhero movies don't do. Dafoe's vulnerable moments were just as appreciated as his scary ones.

I forgot to mention this about Spencer, but he set up Peter and MJ as still not trusting Norman. That implies Norman turning "good" was a red herring in his mind, and then Wells comes along and unironically plays him as good.

Peter and MJ not trusting him isn't surprising given their long and painful history with him. But nothing about the way Wells writes Norman contradicts how he was written by Spencer after being cleansed. Maybe Spencer believed that this would be undone sooner or later, but nothing in his writing suggested Norman was anything less than reformed now.

Norman says he flunked.

Okay I did forget that. Touche.

Norman's entire approval of Peter over Harry and Harry's jealousy of that entirely to do with Harry not being that good at science. If Harry is actually as smart as Peter, that's a major issue with those movies and nothing in the Peter/Harry/Norman dynamic makes sense.

That said, Harry modifying the serum doesn't really say much about how much smarter he is than Peter because the movies didn't focus that much on Peter's scientific expertise. Maybe Harry actually started taking his studies seriously because of Norman's approval of Peter over him. Maybe Harry flunked due to laziness rather than lack of skill. It's hard to tell. There's a lot of wiggle room in "not as smart as Peter".

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Slott only wrote five issues of Renew Your Vows, and I thought he did a pretty good job with the family dynamic, I could be wrong, but I don't think he is married or has children.

The other writers for RYV were Gerry Conway, who is a father and family man a few times over and who's Spider-Man legacy speaks for itself, Gerry's artist Ryan Stegman, who had to fill in for Gerry when he quit, and Jodie Houser, who never wrote BND era stuff and didn't last long at Marvel, ultimately becoming best known for writing Doctor Who comics for Titan publishing during the Jodie Whittaker era (and has since been succeeded by Dan Slott)

I was referring to Slott and Conway. Conway is great, but his best stuff was pre-OMD.

[Matt Rat]

I was referring to Slott and Conway. Conway is great, but his best stuff was pre-OMD.

Conway wrote Spiral, which is one of the better post-OMD stories.

[TinkerSpider]

The series Renew Your Vows wasn’t about Peter, it was about the family - and after Annie aged up, it was centered more on her (with the exception of the cruise vacation issue, which I greatly enjoyed). And MJ got the most development of the adult characters under Conway.

Which is to say, we really haven’t had a story where Dad Peter is the focus. Mr and Mrs Spider-Man by DeFalco probably comes the closest; Dark Ages is an ensemble book but Dad Peter is the narrator and features pretty heavily.

[PCN24454]

The series Renew Your Vows wasn’t about Peter, it was about the family - and after Annie aged up, it was centered more on her (with the exception of the cruise vacation issue, which I greatly enjoyed). And MJ got the most development of the adult characters under Conway.

Which is to say, we really haven’t had a story where Dad Peter is the focus. Mr and Mrs Spider-Man by DeFalco probably comes the closest; Dark Ages is an ensemble book but Dad Peter is the narrator and features pretty heavily.

Parents tend to be static characters. It’s honestly the difference between mature adult and an immature one. It’s nice because it means that Peter is less likely to screw up.

[Alan2099]

Parents tend to be static characters.

That's one of the maion reasons I always disagree with people when they say they want Peter to be a dad.

[Agent Z]

Parents tend to be static characters. It’s honestly the difference between mature adult and an immature one. It’s nice because it means that Peter is less likely to screw up.

There's a huge middle ground between being perfect and being an immature screw up who never gets anything right.

[marhawkman]

That's one of the maion reasons I always disagree with people when they say they want Peter to be a dad.

Parents are "static" because they need that stability to balance out the additional duties and responsibilities. But this means they have things that threaten that... balance. So, in some ways it's more a desire for being static than a reality.

[PCN24454]

There's a huge middle ground between being perfect and being an immature screw up who never gets anything right.

In fiction, there isn’t.